Liverpool v Leeds

[GraemeS]

Yeah, agree with the tweeter actually - that's Alisson's ball first and the attacker initiates the contact trying to get to it.

 

[GraemeS]

Is it a DOGSO? Are the 4 criteria met?

Distance - yes
Direction - yes
Defender - yes
Control - question mark for me based on the touch before the leg is clipped and the position of the GK.

For me it feels like a red would be harsh here.

I do wonder to what extent we can consider the other contact before the final bit that took the attacker down? The defender has a little pull on his shirt when the ball is first played and then makes some contact in his back as he's trying to take that important touch - would it have been easier to control the ball and therefore potentially a clearer opportunity if that contact hadn't happened?

 

[Justylove]

I do wonder to what extent we can consider the other contact before the final bit that took the attacker down? The defender has a little pull on his shirt when the ball is first played and then makes some contact in his back as he's trying to take that important touch - would it have been easier to control the ball and therefore potentially a clearer opportunity if that contact hadn't happened?

It's a real tough sell to send a player off based on that consideration. If you are assessing those elements as a foul, then you need to give it outside the area and award a free kick and send off for DOGSO. IMHO you can't take those into account then give the penalty and send off for DOGSO here.

 

[GraemeS]

It's a real tough sell to send a player off based on that consideration. If you are assessing those elements as a foul, then you need to give it outside the area and award a free kick and send off for DOGSO. IMHO you can't take those into account then give the penalty and send off for DOGSO here.

For us as refs, that's a fiddly conversation. For any random player or punter watching, I don't think a red in this situation would have met with too much resistance?

 

[Justylove]

For us as refs, that's a fiddly conversation. For any random player or punter watching, I don't think a red in this situation would have met with too much resistance?

When did referees start giving KMD's based on what might be popular or the path of least resistance?

If the contacts outside the box are deemed fouls then either the referee awards the free kick there and then or if he's played advantage, then the moment the miscontrol happens he hits the whistle to go back to the original offence for a free kick and send off for DOGSO.

You can argue that in an advantage situation the miscontrol and then foul by the defender almost immediately is also an advantage and award the penalty.

You can also argue that the first 2 pieces of contact are trifling and not fouls by themselves.

What I don't see you able to do is justify the fact that the either of the first 2 contacts are fouls and the final one is also and had it not been for the first one outside the box he'd have had control and therefore it's a penalty and a DOGSO red.

 

[GraemeS]

When did referees start giving KMD's based on what might be popular or the path of least resistance?

Literally the only reason I brought that up is because you started your previous post with "it's a real tough sell". So pick a lane: are we considering how our decisions come across or are we not? Because I'm happy to have a "letter of the law" conversation and I'm happy to have a "real world refereeing" conversation - but I'm not happy to be flipped between the two at your discretion depending on which supports your point.

If the contacts outside the box are deemed fouls then either the referee awards the free kick there and then or if he's played advantage, then the moment the miscontrol happens he hits the whistle to go back to the original offence for a free kick and send off for DOGSO.

You can argue that in an advantage situation the miscontrol and then foul by the defender almost immediately is also an advantage and award the penalty.

You can also argue that the first 2 pieces of contact are trifling and not fouls by themselves.

What I don't see you able to do is justify the fact that the either of the first 2 contacts are fouls and the final one is also and had it not been for the first one outside the box he'd have had control and therefore it's a penalty and a DOGSO red.

I'm not trying to justify anything. I think we both agree that 3 of the 4 DOGSO considerations are met comfortably? So all I'm looking to do is decide what we're actually allowed to consider in making that "control" decision for the final consideration. Because I think it's a possibility that the actions of the defender are a factor and I don't know if that can be considered as part of the decision.

This post reads as though you a) seem to have ascribed a motive here where I can promise there isn't one and b) seem to be quite annoyed that I've even posed the question. I'm not totally sure either of those reactions are particularly fair.

 

[bester]

How would you apply this logic to a continuation foul?

A pull back starts outside the box. When the pulls starts it meets the DOGSO criteria.
The pull continues into the penalty area but by this time the attacker has lost control of the ball and likely won't regain it.

 

[Max2]

How would you apply this logic to a continuation foul?

A pull back starts outside the box. When the pulls starts it meets the DOGSO criteria.
The pull continues into the penalty area but by this time the attacker has lost control of the ball and likely won't regain it.

Holding is not an attempt to play the ball anyway, so the defender sees red and the restart is a penalty.

 

[RustyRef]

I think this was a great decision by the referee and VAR. There was zero chance of the attacker getting the ball, therefore zero chance of DOGSO.

 

[santa sangria]

Is it a DOGSO? Are the 4 criteria met?

Distance - yes
Direction - yes
Defender - yes
Control - question mark for me based on the touch before the leg is clipped and the position of the GK.

For me it feels like a red would be harsh here.

They are not criteria, they are considerations. They do not all have to be met. There are lots of DOGSO scenarios when one or more considerations are not met.