A&H

Open Age Match Control or Coaching?

You're right, he should kick it. However, if he's asked, I think it's easier to say yes or no, rather than either ignore him, or give an answer which could quite easily give off a negative impression.
 
The Referee Store
Sometimes it's an obvious back pass. Sometimes it's obviously not. In those cases I don't bother saying anything

If, however, it's one of those uncertain ones that could be called (by me) either way, then, if I have the time, I will proactively let ALL the players know what I am thinking .. don't see any benefit in keeping it a secret and then surprising / annoying one or other team by whistling or not whistling!
 
There's no uncertainty here....it either is a back pass or it isn't......

GKs should know the difference......
 
Padfoot said:
There's no uncertainty here....it either is a back pass or it isn't......

GKs should know the difference......
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No, it's whether in the referee's opinion a defender deliberately played the ball to the goalkeeper. Playing in goal does not give you psychic/mind-reading abilities, and therefore it would seem sensible for the goalkeeper to ask the referee whether he (or she) may pick the ball up or not.
 
Russell Jones said:
Does seeing the world in such a Black and White fashion allow you to save money on your TV licence as well?? :)
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How is it not a 'black and white ' offence?

Either it's back pass or it isn't.....there isn't a halfway house offence of 'mmmmm not sure, might be, don't know...'
 
Alex Rush-Fear said:
No, it's whether in the referee's opinion a defender deliberately played the ball to the goalkeeper. Playing in goal does not give you psychic/mind-reading abilities, and therefore it would seem sensible for the goalkeeper to ask the referee whether he (or she) may pick the ball up or not.
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Rubbish.

A competent GK will know a back pass when they see it....or at least they should be able to have enough judgement to decide for themselves if it's safe to handle....if they aren't sure then they don't use their hands......

No incentive for them to learn if they keep relying on referees making their decision for them......
 
Padfoot said:
Rubbish.

A competent GK will know a back pass when they see it....or at least they should be able to have enough judgement to decide for themselves if it's safe to handle....if they aren't sure then they don't use their hands......

No incentive for them to learn if they keep relying on referees making their decision for them......
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It's not just a question of the GK's competency though...
 
santa sangria said:
Funny as that is coaching for me.
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agreed
Padfoot said:
How is it not a 'black and white ' offence?

Either it's back pass or it isn't.....there isn't a halfway house offence of 'mmmmm not sure, might be, don't know...'
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Huh? Whether it's a deliberate kick can be a subjective decision.
Padfoot said:
Why?

If he has any doubt he should kick it.....
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Wait, are you saying that you wouldn't answer if the question was asked? That just comes off as really arrogant refereeing to the players, and the sort of thing players absolutely hate. Why on earth wouldn't you?
 
Padfoot said:
How is it not a 'black and white ' offence?
Either it's back pass or it isn't.....there isn't a halfway house offence of 'mmmmm not sure, might be, don't know...'
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I agree, it's either kicked by a defender to the keeper or it isn't .... in the OPINION of the referee. There are a small number of occasions where players will legitimately be unsure of the referee's opinion. For referees who appreciate that match control is both key and is enhanced by empathetic communication, these occasions are therefore an easy win and make any subsequent decision / non decision a much easier sell. But I fear I am probably wasting my breath ... :rolleyes:
 
If you spotted a player was about to pass to a team mate who was in an offside position....would you warn them about it?
 
Padfoot said:
If you spotted a player was about to pass to a team mate who was in an offside position....would you warn them about it?
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I did that once - very early on in my ref-ing ... even though it was a one-sided pre-season friendly - I got rightly smashed pretty much by the whole defending team - including bench ... lesson learnt
 
Padfoot said:
If you spotted a player was about to pass to a team mate who was in an offside position....would you warn them about it?
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Very different. Badly chosen example.

If players ask, just tell them. I'm not saying anything about whether or not he can pick it up unless requested to do so. It's usually some bizarre deflection or tackle anyway where a pick up is fine.
 
I think its a tough one to call, because if you do let the keeper know if its a back pass or not then the opposition might get the ump?
 
Russell Jones said:
No.

Because that's a matter of fact not opinion.

But more generally if I'd wanted to take a vow of silence then I'd have become a monk not a referee :)
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SM said:
Very different. Badly chosen example.

If players ask, just tell them. I'm not saying anything about whether or not he can pick it up unless requested to do so. It's usually some bizarre deflection or tackle anyway where a pick up is fine.
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Not a poor example at all...just an uncomfortable comparison!

You decide whether they are offside in the same way that you decide whether it is a back pass......both involve you looking at the situation and making a decision as to whether an offence has occurred or might occur....both involve you having an opportunity to influence whether the offence is committed or not.....yet one you are happy to assist the potential offenders in preventing an offence..the other you are not?

Why?
 
Padfoot said:
Why?
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Where's a yawning emoji when you need one?! (Ross, sort it out mate :))

With the offside situation there are WAY too many variables for a football referee to credibly input in a preventative fashion (though interestingly, rugby referees can and do inform players when they are offside and warn them not to interfere with play).

Unlike the debatable 'back pass' where there's only one variable ... your personal opinion as to whether it is or isn't. So this gives you the perfect opportunity to demonstrate your 'human' side through proactive communication.

I must have done this hundreds of times over the last few seasons .. with never a single complaint from players or coaches and only ever getting positives from assessors with regard to my verbal communication with players (unlike a multitude of other areas they find fault with!).

Hopefully that explains 'why' to your satisfaction :)
 
Ok..lets spin around a bit....if the GK doesn't ask, do you still communicate whether it's ok to pick it up or not?

If not..why not?
 
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