RefSix

World Cup New laws applied incorrectly?

Yampy

RefChat Addict
#21
Oh but it does :) . I think you are thinking about the conditions for a dropped ball if the ball touches the referee.

View attachment 3516
And this thread is driven by a question raised on a video involving law 9. What else should I be thinking of?
(And yes, I can see there's a lack of transparency between law 9 and law 8)
 
#23
Like many new rules, there are unintended consequences or odd scenarios. I think “what football expects” is our tool to avoid creating unfair applications (at least sometimes). This does seem to me a pretty radical change to not have had a test of before imp,emerging, but so far as I know, it came out of the blue,
 

one

RefChat Addict
#24
Like many new rules, there are unintended consequences or odd scenarios. I think “what football expects” is our tool to avoid creating unfair applications (at least sometimes). This does seem to me a pretty radical change to not have had a test of before imp,emerging, but so far as I know, it came out of the blue,
Agreed. It should have been tried for a year in a league to iron out wording issues and scenarios not easy to think of. As it stands now, there is sure to be some changes made to it.

(And yes, I can see there's a lack of transparency between law 9 and law 8)
I don't think there is inconsistencies as such. One is about when to apply dropped ball after the ball touches a match official and the other is about how to do the dropped ball. I do think though if they used "played by" in both cases it will be less ambiguous and clearer. That is, if the ball is played by one team, touches the referee and then played by another team, it's a dropped ball to the team that played it last.
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#25
Remember that drop balls are now uncontested and can only be awarded to whoever last touched the ball. A deflection counts as a touch.
But a deflection is not possession, therefore if the ball deflects from a player and hits the referee and then falls to the opposing team you don't need to award a dropped ball as a team has not lost possession through the ball hitting the referee
 

The Referee

Well-Known Member
#26
But a deflection is not possession, therefore if the ball deflects from a player and hits the referee and then falls to the opposing team you don't need to award a dropped ball as a team has not lost possession through the ball hitting the referee
What if a player from Team A kicks the ball, it deflects of a player from Team B, then hits the referee and falls to a player from Team B?

According to your interpretation, Team A had possession but possession has now changed after the ball hit the referee. Therefore, a drop ball must be given. However, a drop ball can only be given to Team B as they last touched the ball.

The law is very poorly worded.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#27
What if a player from Team A kicks the ball, it deflects of a player from Team B, then hits the referee and falls to a player from Team B?

According to your interpretation, Team A had possession but possession has now changed after the ball hit the referee. Therefore, a drop ball must be given. However, a drop ball can only be given to Team B as they last touched the ball.

The law is very poorly worded.
Now change "possession" from law 9 and "last touched by" from law 8 to "played by" (in both cases) as per my post #24 above and this problem disappears.
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#28
What if a player from Team A kicks the ball, it deflects of a player from Team B, then hits the referee and falls to a player from Team B?

According to your interpretation, Team A had possession but possession has now changed after the ball hit the referee. Therefore, a drop ball must be given. However, a drop ball can only be given to Team B as they last touched the ball.

The law is very poorly worded.
No, team A lost possession of the ball after it deflected off of the player from team B.

As neither team had possession of the ball when it hit the referee there is no requirement to have a dropped ball.
 

ladbroke8745

Well-Known Member
#29
I'm confused.

I thought this dropped ball ruling only applied to something that happened following a dropped ball and it striking the referee and possession changes away from the team that the dropped ball was for.

Didn't realise it was a dropped ball every time it struck a referee regardless of when or what happened to how it struck a referee.
So I take it the phrase it struck us and we are part of play is obselete now.
 

ladbroke8745

Well-Known Member
#30
Just read Peters response to my thread about the dropped ball in another section of the forum.
Law 9 makes sense of this now to me, I think, but all it does now is mean teams, if can't find a player to pass it to and close to an official, will aim the ball at the referee and claim it to be a pass and get a dropped ball instead.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#31
I'm confused.

I thought this dropped ball ruling only applied to something that happened following a dropped ball and it striking the referee and possession changes away from the team that the dropped ball was for.

Didn't realise it was a dropped ball every time it struck a referee regardless of when or what happened to how it struck a referee.
There are two separate but related changes.
  1. Ball touching an official in certain circumstances (not all) will result in a dropped ball.
  2. The procedure for dropped ball has changed (independent of point one above).
So I take it the phrase it struck us and we are part of play is obselete now.
Not in all circumstances. If the ball touches you and the team possessing it doesn't change (and some other circumstances), then you are still part of play. You should read changes in LAW's 8 and 9 in full.

but all it does now is mean teams, if can't find a player to pass it to and close to an official, will aim the ball at the referee and claim it to be a pass and get a dropped ball instead.
That's why you should work harder on your reaction and dodging the ball now :)
 
#32
I think, but all it does now is mean teams, if can't find a player to pass it to and close to an official, will aim the ball at the referee and claim it to be a pass and get a dropped ball instead.
We've also had this discussion already. A referee shouldn't normally be close enough to play for this to be a viable option and I would say they usually aren't. If I remember correctly from some statistics I read once, top level referees manage to stay an average of 15-20 yards from the ball. For most referees at lower levels the average distance will be greater. Even if the player does manage to hit the referee from 20 yards away (or more) which is relatively unlikely, it won't necessarily lead to a dropped ball anyway, unless the criteria are met. So I don't think it's realistically going to happen all that often.
 
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