A&H

Junior/Youth One of "those" games

Matthew

RefChat Addict
Just my third game back and already had "one of those games".

U14 youth match (red v yellow) on Saturday morning ended with three yellows, two sin bins and two reds. Relatively easy first half aside from an early penalty to yellow after a clumsy challenge from the defender (no real complaints) and a caution for red for a poor challenge on the keeper at the back end of the half.

First sign of any real issue was some verbals between two players as they walked off at half time, but I was right on top of it and stepped in to calm things down - quick word with both and a warning to cool it down. No idea what brought this on, but overheard the red coach riling his team up ("get into them"/"let him know you're there" etc) at half time and pretty much straight away at the start of the second half the niggly kicks/leaving a bit in the challenge from the reds started. I kept on top of it as much as I could (quiet words with players, making sure I was right on top of everything positionally etc) and on the second challenge from one of the red players pulled him in for a word and warned him that any more would result in a caution; not 30 seconds later he was late again, so into the book he went.

I could feel the temperature rising, so went with the "kill the game" approach that we often mention on here. Another reckless challenge from a red player resulted in more verbals, minor handbags and another caution, at which point I pulled the captains in and told them they had two options, which were for me to play no advantages, get free kicks taken from the exact blade of grass etc or they get their teams under control and we get back to playing (should add that I didn't feel able to release the game at any point after that). This worked for yellows, who stopped reaction to the behaviour of the reds, but not for reds who decided that they'd have the final say on every decision - 2 reds were warned and ultimately sin binned, which obviously meant that I'd cost them the game. With 5 minutes to go, the first red player's time in the sin bin was up so I jogged over at a break in play to tell him he could come back on, only to have the manager tell me "he's not coming back on because it won't end well for you if he does" :hmmm:; tried to tell the manager that he could sub him if he wanted to, but he decided to tell me to "get lost and finish the game".

At this point I couldn't wait for the game to end, but with a couple of minutes to go an innocuous challenge caused another blow up. Two players squared up before red head butted yellow and yellow responded with a butt of his own. Calmed the situation down and moved yellow away whilst I dismissed red, before calling in yellow and dismissing him. With only 2 minutes to go and with the score at 3-0 I made a judgement call and blew for full time.

It's been on my mind all weekend and I'm really not sure what else I could have done - I tried everything I could to get the game back and genuinely don't recall there being any sign that the game was heading that way. Feels like I was on a hiding to nothing after half time. Any advice on what people think I could have done differently would be greatly appreciated.
 
The Referee Store
Sounds like you did all you could mate. It's only on your mind all weekend because you care and choose to question your own performance. That's a good thing for a referee, but I'm guessing none of the players (especially red) are giving a rat's arse about their part in it today. ;)

It also sounds like your main "problem" was the reds coach and his attitude which rubbed off on his players. Not a lot you can do about that to be honest apart from report what you heard him say.

Put the match and their behaviour behind you. :)
 
I agree with Kes - you have been worrying because you care. It's many years since my first experience of a game like that (4 off, coach sent away) and I was sent back there three weeks later . . . no issues in the second game.
One thought - worth letting the Appointments Officer know about the coach, as that may inform his selection of referees for the next game or two.
Well done for sharing - keep enjoying your refereeing.
 
I posted a similar question about one of my games back in September last year. Some days, despite your best efforts, nothing goes right at all and it's just a relief to get to the final whistle and head home as quickly as possible. I'm sure you'll nail your next game.
 
From what you've posted on here, you handled it just fine and didn't need to do anything differently. Diffused exchange at half time, warned players then booked them, got the captains together to get them to manage the behaviour, to me, what you did was just dandy. Coach and parents for allowing the coach to behave the way he does, are to blame here.
 
"get lost and finish the game" - interested if you YC'd the coach?

Good stuff by the way.
Sounds like you did great;)

The other thing that stood out for me was "any more would result in a caution" - we were discussing this with some grassroots observers the other day. Generally, making hard promises along the lines of "next time it's a yellow" is best avoided because you box yourself in. It worked for you here, but it's sod's law that it'll be 30 mins later and the player will make a super soft foul, and you don't want to YC but opponents will run at you screaming for the next-time-card. Something to consider.
 
Thank you all for the input, I really appreciate it. The more I think about it, the more it feels like the game was going to go that way regardless of what I said or did.

Back out there under the lights tonight, so a good chance to put it out of my mind!

"get lost and finish the game" - interested if you YC'd the coach?

Good stuff by the way.
Sounds like you did great;)

The other thing that stood out for me was "any more would result in a caution" - we were discussing this with some grassroots observers the other day. Generally, making hard promises along the lines of "next time it's a yellow" is best avoided because you box yourself in. It worked for you here, but it's sod's law that it'll be 30 mins later and the player will make a super soft foul, and you don't want to YC but opponents will run at you screaming for the next-time-card. Something to consider.
Thanks, Santa. I did consider cautioning the coach, but to be honest with only 5 minutes to go iit felt like it would have further enflamed the situation (he was also punishing himself by not replacing the sin binned player).

Interesting point on being boxed in with the caution comment. I was relatively confident it was going to happen, and quickly, in this case, but what would you suggest instead to be stern without committing myself to cautioning the next challenge?
 
Sounds like you did brilliantly mate.

Have to say that the red coach’s behaviour is appalling and I would be tempted to have a quiet chat with someone on the league/FA about that - it definitely goes against the fair play/standards that are expected for youth football and that attitude and the fact that the coach appears to make no attempt to instigate fair play goes against much of the good things that the FA are trying to do in the youth game.
 
Sounds like you did brilliantly mate.

Have to say that the red coach’s behaviour is appalling and I would be tempted to have a quiet chat with someone on the league/FA about that - it definitely goes against the fair play/standards that are expected for youth football and that attitude and the fact that the coach appears to make no attempt to instigate fair play goes against much of the good things that the FA are trying to do in the youth game.
This ^ particularly the "he's not coming back on because it won't end well for you if he does" remark - either he has no control of the behaviour of his players, or he would have actively encouraged the player to do whatever it was he was intimating would happen, and either way that doesn't reflect well on him as the person in charge of a youth team! Your county's safeguarding team might well be interested to hear about it...
 
what would you suggest instead to be stern without committing myself to cautioning the next challenge?
My go to is "any more and I would take serious action" . This could be a public warning or any warning. If you want to threaten with booking, "next one 'like that' is a booking".

In either case you have to follow through with whatever you said you'd do.
 
Generally, making hard promises along the lines of "next time it's a yellow" is best avoided because you box yourself in. It worked for you here, but it's sod's law that it'll be 30 mins later and the player will make a super soft foul, and you don't want to YC but opponents will run at you screaming for the next-time-card. Something to consider.
Just one of the reasons this is such a useful forum. I'll second this one, as I had a really bad experience with this early on (back in about 1999!) and have never done it since. You can use plenty of other phrases to make the same point without ever being quite so concrete and painting yourself into a corner (mixing all my metaphors today!).
 
Interesting point on being boxed in with the caution comment. I was relatively confident it was going to happen, and quickly, in this case, but what would you suggest instead to be stern without committing myself to cautioning the next challenge?
As the other esteemed members have said, find another phrase.
Of course, this is hard to do with e.g. a persistent infringement warning where we cut the grass and give a final warning!

anyway...

You need to be more careful, try to play the ball, just because you get the ball doesn't mean it's not a foul, I have to decide about every challenge, try to play, try to play fair etc etc. Even explain careless and reckless...

If you have paused to warn a player then it is as much for the rest of the players/fans/benches as it is for the player - and just the act of you verbally warning them is enough - IMHO what you actually say doesn't matter as the player is ignoring you anyway! It's only when some clever so-and-so hears the "wrong" thing (and can accuse you of being inconsistent or biased) that it's a problem ;)
 
This ^ particularly the "he's not coming back on because it won't end well for you if he does" remark - either he has no control of the behaviour of his players, or he would have actively encouraged the player to do whatever it was he was intimating would happen, and either way that doesn't reflect well on him as the person in charge of a youth team! Your county's safeguarding team might well be interested to hear about it...
The more I think about this the more it doesn't sit right. At the very least I think it's worth a conversation with my refs sec and the age rep for the league, so will pick that one up.
 
You need to be more careful, try to play the ball, just because you get the ball doesn't mean it's not a foul, I have to decide about every challenge, try to play, try to play fair etc etc. Even explain careless and reckless...

If you have paused to warn a player then it is as much for the rest of the players/fans/benches as it is for the player - and just the act of you verbally warning them is enough - IMHO what you actually say doesn't matter as the player is ignoring you anyway! It's only when some clever so-and-so hears the "wrong" thing (and can accuse you of being inconsistent or biased) that it's a problem ;)
Absolutely this. It's actually more about not saying the wrong thing. Best advice I got was to take your time, don't be afraid to use your personality and read the temperature of the moment.

So I'm a man of few words (and they really aren't listening anyway, except to argue), so for me it's far more about stopping things, showing I'm in control with whistle and voice, calling over/meeting the player half way then, depending on temperature I might say that they've now got onto my radar, that they need to calm down, I don't want to see any more of whatever it was, etc. I tend to say why I've given something anyway when I give it too (so I'll shout or signal a push, a hold, etc) which can help explain what I'm warning about without being overly specific and getting into the trap of 'next offence=caution'.

It can (again, temperature is important) also help to let them argue first which gives you thinking time and, counter-intuitively, makes it easier to respond. My best assessor said to me that they can blow up at you for a few seconds and you can wait (like a teacher would). Then you have a way in to say 'ok, I've heard you, now it's time for you to listen to me.' That's a nice way into making those other comments such as santa and I have suggested.

At the end of the day though, it's got to be something that feels ok to you, otherwise it comes across like you're pretending to be someone you're not and the savvy players will jump on that.
 
I often go with something like "Any more and I'll be thinking about a card" - even that little bit of wiggle room is enough to avoid feeling forced to overreact to the next soft foul.
 
This ^ particularly the "he's not coming back on because it won't end well for you if he does" remark - either he has no control of the behaviour of his players, or he would have actively encouraged the player to do whatever it was he was intimating would happen, and either way that doesn't reflect well on him as the person in charge of a youth team! Your county's safeguarding team might well be interested to hear about it...
Absolutely spot on - agree with you there.
 
Absolutely this. It's actually more about not saying the wrong thing. Best advice I got was to take your time, don't be afraid to use your personality and read the temperature of the moment.

So I'm a man of few words (and they really aren't listening anyway, except to argue), so for me it's far more about stopping things, showing I'm in control with whistle and voice, calling over/meeting the player half way then, depending on temperature I might say that they've now got onto my radar, that they need to calm down, I don't want to see any more of whatever it was, etc. I tend to say why I've given something anyway when I give it too (so I'll shout or signal a push, a hold, etc) which can help explain what I'm warning about without being overly specific and getting into the trap of 'next offence=caution'.

It can (again, temperature is important) also help to let them argue first which gives you thinking time and, counter-intuitively, makes it easier to respond. My best assessor said to me that they can blow up at you for a few seconds and you can wait (like a teacher would). Then you have a way in to say 'ok, I've heard you, now it's time for you to listen to me.' That's a nice way into making those other comments such as santa and I have suggested.

At the end of the day though, it's got to be something that feels ok to you, otherwise it comes across like you're pretending to be someone you're not and the savvy players will jump on that.
Agreed. Very few words are needed. Indeed too many equates to squabbling (which is bad :facepalm:)
Easier 'said' than done ;)
 
Some great advice there from experienced officials and like has been mentioned this is a great forum to use. I would definitely report the coach who made the comment 'it wouldn't end good for you' and the stuff he said at half time......this fella shouldn't be anywhere near youth football, he obviously appears happy to wind he players up to cause trouble.
It maybe his own club wouldn't want him involved if they were told what he is saying. You did well to handle the game but others may suffer in the future if they cant handle it like you did, and it may lead to players getting hurt or injured.
 
Absolutely this. It's actually more about not saying the wrong thing. Best advice I got was to take your time, don't be afraid to use your personality and read the temperature of the moment.

So I'm a man of few words (and they really aren't listening anyway, except to argue), so for me it's far more about stopping things, showing I'm in control with whistle and voice, calling over/meeting the player half way then, depending on temperature I might say that they've now got onto my radar, that they need to calm down, I don't want to see any more of whatever it was, etc. I tend to say why I've given something anyway when I give it too (so I'll shout or signal a push, a hold, etc) which can help explain what I'm warning about without being overly specific and getting into the trap of 'next offence=caution'.

It can (again, temperature is important) also help to let them argue first which gives you thinking time and, counter-intuitively, makes it easier to respond. My best assessor said to me that they can blow up at you for a few seconds and you can wait (like a teacher would). Then you have a way in to say 'ok, I've heard you, now it's time for you to listen to me.' That's a nice way into making those other comments such as santa and I have suggested.

At the end of the day though, it's got to be something that feels ok to you, otherwise it comes across like you're pretending to be someone you're not and the savvy players will jump on that.
Excellent advice in your penultimate paragraph. On one of the RA Zoom sessions and EFL referee said exactly the same!
 
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