PGMOL referees

[James P]

Just seen a graphic of the birthplaces of (English) SG1 referees. Only 3 out 20 SG1 referees are from the South of England (all 3 from Bristol) and none of them are from London. Is it just a coincidence that there are only 3 from southern England but 6 from the northwest, or are there more underlying factors behind this?

The map in question (ignore the bs of Arsenal fans underneath it):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/t3nshw

 

[es1]

The North is just better than the south...could be coincidence but could be the North has stronger step 7-2 teams/leagues which helps develop refs more for the pro game?

 

[GraemeS]

As someone who's reffed in a few different counties but all in the South, one thing I hear a lot from the L4's and L3's I line for is how draining it is to be an L4/L3 around here. Travel times can be huge (which may be less the case in the North based on @es1 's comments), any small mistake in an observation can scupper your season (possibly due to limited observers that can observe higher-level matches, meaning fewer observations take place, meaning each one is individually more important?) and the pay doesn't start to go up significantly until you're past that hump and into L2.

My instinct is that a lot of quality referees are weeded out for non-football reasons at L4 and L3 - if you're young you might not have the required clout at work to be on flexible enough shifts to do the matches required of you, if you're a little older then the expectation to spend time with family starts to increase. A ref who has a regular 2-hour journey to matches will often need to leave work early and will potentially not be home before midnight - cut that journey in half and the ref doesn't need special permission to leave work early and may be home before their other half wants to go to bed.

 

[es1]

my comment was (partially) tongue in cheek!

we definitely have some decent trips up here and at steps 3/4 it's likely to be 30 mins minimum and up to 2 hours (though my step 4 line at the weekend was a lovely 2.2 mile round trip!).

step 5/6/7 is less travel with a max time of probably an hour so you're probably onto something tbh

 

[JamesL]

my comment was (partially) tongue in cheek!

we definitely have some decent trips up here and at steps 3/4 it's likely to be 30 mins minimum and up to 2 hours (though my step 4 line at the weekend was a lovely 2.2 mile round trip!).

step 5/6/7 is less travel with a max time of probably an hour so you're probably onto something tbh

Having moved form the North West to the south west I can hand on heart verify that the travelling down here is a hell of a lot more.
Yep, there were a couple of longer days, but the concentration of clubs AND referees in the Liverpool and Manchester area meant less travelling.
As I said on Ben's thread I have fell out of love with assisting due to the travelling times here and the restrictions that places on my family time. It would be a non event if I still lived in the North West.

 

[RustyRef]

There are a number of possible reasons.

Until very recently, L3s in the South would referee step 3 and 4 football, whereas in much of the North L3s would be refereeing at step 5. There is an argument to say that officiating higher level games makes it trickier to get promotion as it is a national merit table.

In the South, especially around the London area, refereeing at senior levels can be that much harder as they often work in London and use public transport, so they have to leave work to go home and get the car before travelling to the game. I know of lots of senior referees, myself included, who cited that as a reason they didn't carry on as it was just too difficult to balance work and refereeing.

And the final possible reason might be the transient nature of people in the South East. A lot of people start refereeing down here when they are young but then move away as they are older and start families. I can think of at least three current EFL referees that were trained and came through the system in London and surrounding counties, but now have moved away.

 

[JamesL]

There are a number of possible reasons.

Until very recently, L3s in the South would referee step 3 and 4 football, whereas in much of the North L3s would be refereeing at step 5. There is an argument to say that officiating higher level games makes it trickier to get promotion as it is a national merit table.

In the South, especially around the London area, refereeing at senior levels can be that much harder as they often work in London and use public transport, so they have to leave work to go home and get the car before travelling to the game. I know of lots of senior referees, myself included, who cited that as a reason they didn't carry on as it was just too difficult to balance work and refereeing.

And the final possible reason might be the transient nature of people in the South East. A lot of people start refereeing down here when they are young but then move away as they are older and start families. I can think of at least three current EFL referees that were trained and came through the system in London and surrounding counties, but now have moved away.

North were doing steps 5-3. And that was the same here in the south west until the restructure.
I think that was the norm and l4s reffing step 5 was more put of the ordinary. Possibly due to number of games in area I suspect.

 

[RustyRef]

North were doing steps 5-3. And that was the same here in the south west until the restructure.
I think that was the norm and l4s reffing step 5 was more put of the ordinary. Possibly due to number of games in area I suspect.

Yes I know, but depending on where they lived some L3s did almost all of their games at step 5, whereas in the South, and especially the South East, almost all games would be at step 4 or 3 on the Isthmian or Southern Leagues. At least they have sorted that out now and only time will tell if it addresses the balance.