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Political Logos

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Back to football, I thing the BLM thing on the shirts is typical
One of these days, we might see them address the demographics of the game. That photo of the IFAB members was particularly jaw dropping
 
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Kes said:
Moot point.

UK society isn't systemically racist.

The dumb actions and opinions of a dying breed (racists/bigots) doesn't lend credibility to thousands of woke individuals causing havoc and carrying placards claiming the UK is. Look at the facts. The UK leans the opposite way in everything it does, and so do the majority of it's population.
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It's easy to go around thinking "Well, I haven't heard anyone white use the n-word or call someone a pa*i for years, so racism must be solved". And the fact we don't have guns over here in the same way they do in the US does mean that it is literally more difficult for the police to kill someone here than it is over there, so it's true that you don't get the same frequency of highly-reported lethal force when it comes to police vs minority incidents.

But it's miles away from being that straightforward. And I do understand how from a white, privileged position, it can be difficult to see. I know personally, it's just not something that affects me regularly, so it's not something I was even really aware of until a few years ago. But that doesn't mean it's not there - @JamesL laid out very well the ways that systemic issues still exist. Those are real issue that affect real people on a regular basis. And the BLM campaign has used those incidents listed above to start asking serious questions about what can be done and why the changes that have already been made haven't worked.

Again, I ask why anyone would have a problem with this idea? A slogan that advocates for greater equality and fairness...the fact that people are having to come on here and defend it seems to actually make a fairly strong argument for why it's needed.
 
I've spent fair amount of time in South Africa and have a lot of friends over there. SA is a country that has had major well documented issues relating to race until 30 years or so ago.

What happened under the Apartheid system was a systemic state policy of depriving opportunities to individuals based upon the colour of their skin. When Apartheid ended, it then opened up opportunities in terms of education for black children, however it takes time (at least a generation) for that to filter through into society as a whole, because the children to first benefit had to go through an equal education system and into the workforce. Those individuals are now having families of their own and their children now come from "middle class backgrounds" as opposed to "poor, township backgrounds"

However part of the challenge in South Africa was the fact that the pendulum swung back almost too far, where job adverts would and could state that jobs were only open to candidates who were "Black or from PDI (previously disadvantaged individuals) backgrounds."

Do I believe that the UK is systemically racist? No, however I do think that whilst there might be the same opportunities afforded to individuals from BAME backgrounds (example they have the same opportunities in the education system as those from white backgrounds), often they are less likely to be able to take advantage of those opportunities for social or economic reasons.

Part of the problem I see in the media is that that they dumb down every problem to binary choices, when the reality is all of the things we've seen (Covid, Brexit, BLM) are really complex issues with many factors impacting them.

If I look to football. It's clear that BAME individuals are highly under represented when it comes to managerial roles in the pro game as well as in the refereeing community. However how do you change it? Maybe a version of the NFL's "Rooney Rule" for clubs where any managerial vacancy has to have a certain proportion of BAME candidates interviewed, but to avoid it being a "checkbox" exercise, you'd need to have clubs accountable to the FA or PL to justify their decision of not giving the job to a BAME candidate. But ultimately if you had a racist football club owner they could easily make a justification as to why the white candidate was a better fit for their club in terms of vision, direction etc.

When it comes to referees, I don't think the answer would be to have x% of all promotions be given to BAME referees, only because what that can foster is something where referees are getting promoted before they are ready and then failing at the higher level which in itself drives a negative stereotype. I genuinely don't know what a solution to it is, maybe greater levels of mentoring from SG1 and SG2 officials where a % of mentees need to be BAME (and female) referees? That then potentially drives an increased level of opportunity for progression, but retains the need for the individual to be able to demonstrate readiness and the competence to do so.
 
Peter Grove said:
You're really asking that? In the current context?

The fire is the systematic and endemic bias against people simply because of the colour of their skin, especially in the way it has been seen publicly and shockingly in recent weeks and months.

The fire is George Floyd, the fire is Breonna Taylor, the fire is Ahmaud Arbery, the fire is Philando Castile, the fire is Eric Garner, the fire is Trayvon Martin - I could go on and on and on.

Here's another similar analogy to the one I gave about "all houses matter", in picture form:

View attachment 4331
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This is the UK.

The rest of your post is supposition based on your own skewed opinion and biased media hype.

Look at everything here that happens in support of BAME. Employment law, education, sport, everything. The UK has spent years virtually eradicating systemic racism and it's practice in all that it does - you'd have to be blind not to see it. But a couple of thug coppers in the USA murder a black man and all of a sudden we're all racists over here and should be ashamed of ourselves?

I deal in facts, not feelings. Just because you feel strongly about something doesn't necessarily make it right or true.
 
Big Cat said:
Back to football, I thing the BLM thing on the shirts is typical
One of these days, we might see them address the demographics of the game. That photo of the IFAB members was particularly jaw dropping
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Footballers being basically forced to wear a politically-based slogan on their shirts, like police officers being forced to "take a knee" :rolleyes: or suffer the consequences isn't democracy -it's a disgrace and an embarrassment to our sport.
 
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it’s coming down after all the Englishmen, Irishmen and Scotsmen he’s ever offended we’re up in arms!
 
Kes said:
Footballers being basically forced to wear a politically-based slogan on their shirts, like police officers being forced to "take a knee" :rolleyes: or suffer the consequences isn't democracy -it's a disgrace and an embarrassment to our sport.
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snap question,

if we were doing games at the weekend and the FA said, referees to take a knee before kick off on Saturday, would you?

Am no, absolutely not.
 
Kes said:
Interesting how the Premier League found it unacceptable for players to wear poppies on their shirts as I recall but a "political" slogan is okay or maybe I imagined that one ...
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That was FIFA for international games, not Premier League and poppies have been worn by players and match officials.
 
RustyRef said:
That was FIFA for international games, not Premier League and poppies have been worn by players and match officials.
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Yep. My mistake. Bet FIFA are happy to endorse the BLM logo though - as per my previous post ...
 
Football in the UK is amazing. From Cyril Regis et al to Sterling and Rashford, via Barnes, even throwing in Klinsmann, Cantona etc etc etc.

Football in the UK now (mostly) is an amazing example to other walks of life and to other countries when it comes to changing ingrained behaviour and conquering evil - while celebrating amazing people and teams.

It is just incredible. Can we, can they, use UK football as a vehicle to keep promoting equality? Absolutely. What else is there? What other legacy will we leave behind? Right now I see no justification for anything other than unconditional support.
 
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