A&H

Red card did I do the right thing?

R

ramref

New Member
Level 7 Referee
I was refereeing an U11 game this morning when one player who had been questioning my decisions all game committed an act of dissent again for the 3rd time now after I told him twice I'm not having it. YC and sin bin. He told me his first name but I didn't get his second as he had already stormed off.

Their manager (who was near as I talked to the player so could heat what I said) asked why I did it and then continued to question earlier decisions - I told him to stop and he was on his final warning by caution but he continued, so I showed him the yellow card. The other coach there said "You can give me one while you're at it" in a joking manner - I told him this was not relevant to him. I promptly asked for the coaches name to which he said "Not telling you that" which quite literally shows a 10 year old is more mature than him.

The coach I had cautioned continued again and while I was explaining that there would be an FA Misconduct report for him he said "Well you haven't given us f**k all this game" (They were 12-0 down, this was 1 minute from time and I hadn't given them much because the other team didn't commit many fouls - because that's how football works)

As he was swearing at an U11 game (year 6s at school) I decided to give him a straight red - Personally I will have absolutely zero bad language around children, if it comes from a coach it's red and nothing else. He then said in response to this (to his players) "Come on lads we're leaving" - This was now just 20 seconds left in the game and because the kids don't know much better they followed him. I blew for full time 20 seconds early but should this count as a home walkover or not since it was so close to the end? I had lots of parents and opposition coaches come to me and asked if I was alright - they were all very nice.

Did I do the right thing?
Thanks
 
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My question is why did you wait until the 3rd incident of dissent to issue a sin bin? For me you get a warning and then you're getting the sanction.

For the rest I would agree with your call. It's OFFINABUS and your are the sole arbiter of what you consider to be offensive, insulting or abusive. I would agree with having a different threshold for offensive at u11 compared to older ages especially coming from a coach.
 
I like to operate in a "3 strikes and you're out" for what I consider mild dissent - more serious dissent (calling me useless/blind etc) is final warning and offensive language from players is a strong yellow - coaches are much older so get less chances and harsher sanctions
 
SammyT5 said:
I’m aware how pedantic I sound here, but should “offensive language” not naturally fall under OFFINABUS and therefore be a sending off?
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This has got a lot of airing over the 2 years I've been visiting here!

It's up to the ref to decide what is offensive etc and is strongly context based. Some ages and areas it is a more common part of the lexicon so needs to be put in context.
 
ramref said:
more serious dissent (calling me useless/blind etc)
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That's not even getting a warning from me. That's straight out dissent. Off you pop.

Getting chatty and chippy gets a warning. If they don't heed the warning then they are taking a big risk.

My absolute favourite this season was a player that was getting noisy, so captains and everyone got a big verbal that I was at the edge of my tolerance. 2 minutes later same player argues a throw in. Sin bin. His right back comes running 40 yards to join the argument and gets the second sin bin right as he arrives on the scene.
 
Viridis1886 said:
This has got a lot of airing over the 2 years I've been visiting here!

It's up to the ref to decide what is offensive etc and is strongly context based. Some ages and areas it is a more common part of the lexicon so needs to be put in context.
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It comes up every few months. It always will!

What someone finds offensive will differ from person to person, and to a point, there will be context as you say. But if you are describing something as offensive, the only course of action you can take is red.
 
ramref said:
As he was swearing at an U11 game (year 6s at school) I decided to give him a straight red - Personally I will have absolutely zero bad language around children, if it comes from a coach it's red and nothing else. He then said in response to this (to his players) "Come on lads we're leaving" - This was now just 20 seconds left in the game and because the kids don't know much better they followed him. I blew for full time 20 seconds early but should this count as a home walkover or not since it was so close to the end? I had lots of parents and opposition coaches come to me and asked if I was alright - they were all very nice.

Did I do the right thing?
Thanks
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I trust that you will be completing the disciplinary process on WGS, but you should report to the league that the match finished early due to the coach taking the players off. They may wish to bring a separate charge against him/the club for this action, because technically the match had not finished so it was an abandonment.
 
ramref said:
I like to operate in a "3 strikes and you're out" for what I consider mild dissent - more serious dissent (calling me useless/blind etc) is final warning and offensive language from players is a strong yellow - coaches are much older so get less chances and harsher sanctions
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Hi. Can I suggest that you are careful with the 3 strikes approach to dissent. In theory in an 11v11 match you are potentially setting yourself up for 22+up to 5 subs each =32 x 2 warnings =64 warnings before you issue a dissent sin bin, I know you don’t mean that and that that will never happen but what will happen is if you warn a player once or twice and then issue a sin bin to another player you will be challenged strongly on why the different treatment. My approach is this (same for delaying restart) I give a 30 sec brief to managers and ask them to get 3 messages across a) eqpt is correct shin pads and no jewellery b) I will sin bin for dissent towards any match official c) I will YC for obvious delaying restart offences. I then say “and that was the ‘warning’ so please make it clear to your players”.
 
Dicky Herts said:
Hi. Can I suggest that you are careful with the 3 strikes approach to dissent. In theory in an 11v11 match you are potentially setting yourself up for 22+up to 5 subs each =32 x 2 warnings =64 warnings before you issue a dissent sin bin, I know you don’t mean that and that that will never happen but what will happen is if you warn a player once or twice and then issue a sin bin to another player you will be challenged strongly on why the different treatment. My approach is this (same for delaying restart) I give a 30 sec brief to managers and ask them to get 3 messages across a) eqpt is correct shin pads and no jewellery b) I will sin bin for dissent towards any match official c) I will YC for obvious delaying restart offences. I then say “and that was the ‘warning’ so please make it clear to your players”.
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Is this before your own inspection or in lieu of one? Seems like an odd thing to communicate to managers that's all.
 
ChrisBLD said:
Is this before your own inspection or in lieu of one? Seems like an odd thing to communicate to managers that's all.
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If it’s a senior match with team sheets then I’ll mention these things to the manager and also do a pre match quick inspection. If it’s a youth or any other match without team sheets or without an obvious opportunity to inspect every player because they are not entering pitch via a singles gate then it’s more difficult to inspect every player so the message is given to the manager to pass on.
 
Dicky Herts said:
If it’s a senior match with team sheets then I’ll mention these things to the manager and also do a pre match quick inspection. If it’s a youth or any other match without team sheets or without an obvious opportunity to inspect every player because they are not entering pitch via a singles gate then it’s more difficult to inspect every player so the message is given to the manager to pass on.
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According to LOTG you must carry out an inspection.
 
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