RefSix

What I leaned this weekend

RefJef

RefChat Addict
#1
For various reasons, this weekend saw me taking charge of (2) OA games for the first time for a month or so. Reflecting on the three hours of football officiated, I’ve arrived at the following conclusions (nothing new or earth shattering, I write largely for my own benefit: formalising my thoughts is a helpful learning process, and, perhaps, just maybe, someone may benefit from reading my thoughts.)

1. Trust your whistle. I know a “fault” of mine is that I can sometimes backdown from giving a card (yellow) - once everybody has calmed down after the initial contact, I’ve sent away the aggrieved and moaning victim, and isolate the perpetrator, sometimes I go for a talking too rather than a card. Yesterday’s game, reckless tackle, long shrill whistle from me. Send everyone away etc., and I thought “trust your whistle - you gave that long(er) blow because you knew it should be card, so give the card.” And I did. No dramas. Today, similar: reckless tackle, he’s been done by poor pitch + lack of ability, no intent, but again, long(er) whistle. However, game temperature and the fact that this player had been good as gold for 75 mins, I went for talking too & not card. I didn’t trust my whistle. As opposition captain lined up to take free kick, he was asking why it wasn’t a card. I’d made a rod for my own back, I should have trusted my whistle and given a yellow. Four hours later, I’m still kicking myself. Lesson learned - trust your whistle: I tend to get the call (card or no card) right when I whistle (short peep or long blast) I just need to use that to inform my later actions.

2. Dissent: both games started quiet, but in both games, comments began as frustration crept in. Stepped approach, and followed through with a YC for dissent in both games earlier than I might normally do (38 mins in one game, 52 mins in other) In both games, ten mins after the cards, I noticed how dissent from all had gone. Lesson: stepped approach is good, but don’t leave it too late to step up to YC.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#3
For various reasons, this weekend saw me taking charge of (2) OA games for the first time for a month or so. Reflecting on the three hours of football officiated, I’ve arrived at the following conclusions (nothing new or earth shattering, I write largely for my own benefit: formalising my thoughts is a helpful learning process, and, perhaps, just maybe, someone may benefit from reading my thoughts.)

1. Trust your whistle. I know a “fault” of mine is that I can sometimes backdown from giving a card (yellow) - once everybody has calmed down after the initial contact, I’ve sent away the aggrieved and moaning victim, and isolate the perpetrator, sometimes I go for a talking too rather than a card. Yesterday’s game, reckless tackle, long shrill whistle from me. Send everyone away etc., and I thought “trust your whistle - you gave that long(er) blow because you knew it should be card, so give the card.” And I did. No dramas. Today, similar: reckless tackle, he’s been done by poor pitch + lack of ability, no intent, but again, long(er) whistle. However, game temperature and the fact that this player had been good as gold for 75 mins, I went for talking too & not card. I didn’t trust my whistle. As opposition captain lined up to take free kick, he was asking why it wasn’t a card. I’d made a rod for my own back, I should have trusted my whistle and given a yellow. Four hours later, I’m still kicking myself. Lesson learned - trust your whistle: I tend to get the call (card or no card) right when I whistle (short peep or long blast) I just need to use that to inform my later actions.

2. Dissent: both games started quiet, but in both games, comments began as frustration crept in. Stepped approach, and followed through with a YC for dissent in both games earlier than I might normally do (38 mins in one game, 52 mins in other) In both games, ten mins after the cards, I noticed how dissent from all had gone. Lesson: stepped approach is good, but don’t leave it too late to step up to YC.
All sounds quite normal @RefJef
Quite likely your a nice chap with an instinct to show leniency. In terms of overall communication, body language adherence to process, I think it takes years to adapt; yet it can only take a moment to relapse!
I'm not a massive believer in the stepped approach. This morning I was getting the usual chirp from a player which instantly crossed the line... YC, not interested in speaking with the captain, who probably couldn't care less. That was it, dissent penalised at the first instance, no further dissent in the game
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#4
All sounds quite normal @RefJef
Quite likely your a nice chap with an instinct to show leniency. In terms of overall communication, body language adherence to process, I think it takes years to adapt; yet it can only take a moment to relapse!
I'm not a massive believer in the stepped approach. This morning I was getting the usual chirp from a player which instantly crossed the line... YC, not interested in speaking with the captain, who probably couldn't care less. That was it, dissent penalised at the first instance, no further dissent in the game
I had those games too, sometimes I just wasn't interested in a not-listening gobby captain. Player knew what was coming... I had standards to keep up!! Behave or beware!!!
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#5
I had those games too, sometimes I just wasn't interested in a not-listening gobby captain. Player knew what was coming... I had standards to keep up!! Behave or beware!!!
When a player spontaneously say's 'you don't know what you're doing' within range of his chums, there's no piddling about with captain's because those listening will see it as a green light to follow suit. It's not the worst example of dissent, but it is an opportunity to nip it in the bud in no uncertain fashion.
Thanks to Padfoot for teaching me that. The grumpy awld sod was very forthright on the subject. Where is he anyway? Naughty boy's stool maybe?
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#6
Well after a game this morning (local Sunday league, poor discipline a feature in my experience in it), after a sending a player off and being threatened for several minutes before he left the vicinity (threaten to abandon if he didn't), coming back into my face, pushing me and threatening to do me in in the car park several times and then finally coming into the changing rooms to further threatening me (truly embarrassing and quite shocking behaviour from him) my reflection is that I'm refusing to officiate on that league again. 6 months ago a was also threatened on the field during a match with the player sticking his head into mine.

I'd had a really good game. At 1-1 with 10 mins left and no controversy at all, a player is tackled and as the player passes the ball on and moves towards the box he's cynically tripped by said player. Yellow card issued. He then gives me a barrage of abuse so I send him off. 10 mins of solid abuse from players and management then and further abuse afterwards and encouragement of the player who was threatening me.

I'm very self critical but I've had a good game here and have in no way contributed to what happened. Speaking to the other team (really good bunch), they're leaving the league at the end of the season due to it being a cess pit of violence and dissent and so am I. They even sent someone to escort me off the pitch as they feared I'd get attacked. Sunday League inner city football at its finest
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
#7
I know a “fault” of mine is that I can sometimes backdown from giving a card (yellow) - once everybody has calmed down after the initial contact,
I used to get criticism for that. I had to work very hard to stop doing that, but sometimes, once in a while the old habit shows and I get ever so annoyed when I do it. I did it yesterday and I got pulled up on it. @_@

pushing me and threatening to do me in in the car park several times and then finally coming into the changing rooms to further threatening me
Report it as an assault? Hope you're okay.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#8
Well after a game this morning (local Sunday league, poor discipline a feature in my experience in it), after a sending a player off and being threatened for several minutes before he left the vicinity (threaten to abandon if he didn't), coming back into my face, pushing me and threatening to do me in in the car park several times and then finally coming into the changing rooms to further threatening me (truly embarrassing and quite shocking behaviour from him) my reflection is that I'm refusing to officiate on that league again. 6 months ago a was also threatened on the field during a match with the player sticking his head into mine.

I'd had a really good game. At 1-1 with 10 mins left and no controversy at all, a player is tackled and as the player passes the ball on and moves towards the box he's cynically tripped by said player. Yellow card issued. He then gives me a barrage of abuse so I send him off. 10 mins of solid abuse from players and management then and further abuse afterwards and encouragement of the player who was threatening me.

I'm very self critical but I've had a good game here and have in no way contributed to what happened. Speaking to the other team (really good bunch), they're leaving the league at the end of the season due to it being a cess pit of violence and dissent and so am I. They even sent someone to escort me off the pitch as they feared I'd get attacked. Sunday League inner city football at its finest
Imperial, Meadowhall or JunLeague??
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#9
Well after a game this morning (local Sunday league, poor discipline a feature in my experience in it), after a sending a player off and being threatened for several minutes before he left the vicinity (threaten to abandon if he didn't), coming back into my face, pushing me and threatening to do me in in the car park several times and then finally coming into the changing rooms to further threatening me (truly embarrassing and quite shocking behaviour from him) my reflection is that I'm refusing to officiate on that league again. 6 months ago a was also threatened on the field during a match with the player sticking his head into mine.

I'd had a really good game. At 1-1 with 10 mins left and no controversy at all, a player is tackled and as the player passes the ball on and moves towards the box he's cynically tripped by said player. Yellow card issued. He then gives me a barrage of abuse so I send him off. 10 mins of solid abuse from players and management then and further abuse afterwards and encouragement of the player who was threatening me.

I'm very self critical but I've had a good game here and have in no way contributed to what happened. Speaking to the other team (really good bunch), they're leaving the league at the end of the season due to it being a cess pit of violence and dissent and so am I. They even sent someone to escort me off the pitch as they feared I'd get attacked. Sunday League inner city football at its finest
Blimey...
Get your report in, make sure that player gets the customary slap on the wrists
 
#10
All sounds quite normal @RefJef
Quite likely your a nice chap with an instinct to show leniency. In terms of overall communication, body language adherence to process, I think it takes years to adapt; yet it can only take a moment to relapse!
I'm not a massive believer in the stepped approach. This morning I was getting the usual chirp from a player which instantly crossed the line... YC, not interested in speaking with the captain, who probably couldn't care less. That was it, dissent penalised at the first instance, no further dissent in the game
I think having the sin bins for dissent shut players up much quicker than just a simple lemon too. Learned that the hard way!
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#11
Imperial, Meadowhall or JunLeague??
Juniper isn't going anymore I don't think. There's the blades super draw, and the imperial (adult teams from the Meadowhall have joined that one. Well, those that couldn't join the Blades Super Draw). The Meadowhall is now u18 and u21s only, no OA. I'll let you have a guess
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#12
Blimey...
Get your report in, make sure that player gets the customary slap on the wrists
Reported as soon as I got in whilst it was all fresh in my memory. I've seen refs threatened. I've been on teams where one of our players has threatened a ref. I've never seen repeated threatening and never thought that an assault was actually likely like I did today. I was amazed that none of his team mates tried to pull him away or even discourage him. I don't think some of them were registered and it was the managers first game as the last one quit the week before according to the new manager. I wonder why!
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#13
Juniper isn't going anymore I don't think. There's the blades super draw, and the imperial (adult teams from the Meadowhall have joined that one. Well, those that couldn't join the Blades Super Draw). The Meadowhall is now u18 and u21s only, no OA. I'll let you have a guess
I was the go-to idiot FC ref for the Imperial so that would be my guess!!!
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#14
Well after a game this morning (local Sunday league, poor discipline a feature in my experience in it), after a sending a player off and being threatened for several minutes before he left the vicinity (threaten to abandon if he didn't), coming back into my face, pushing me and threatening to do me in in the car park several times and then finally coming into the changing rooms to further threatening me (truly embarrassing and quite shocking behaviour from him) my reflection is that I'm refusing to officiate on that league again. 6 months ago a was also threatened on the field during a match with the player sticking his head into mine.

I'd had a really good game. At 1-1 with 10 mins left and no controversy at all, a player is tackled and as the player passes the ball on and moves towards the box he's cynically tripped by said player. Yellow card issued. He then gives me a barrage of abuse so I send him off. 10 mins of solid abuse from players and management then and further abuse afterwards and encouragement of the player who was threatening me.

I'm very self critical but I've had a good game here and have in no way contributed to what happened. Speaking to the other team (really good bunch), they're leaving the league at the end of the season due to it being a cess pit of violence and dissent and so am I. They even sent someone to escort me off the pitch as they feared I'd get attacked. Sunday League inner city football at its finest



You maybe should have called it quits at that point. I get wanting to carry on for the other players and so on, but, continuing play takes some of the gloss away from a committes view on what happened.
Of course I understand from a referee point of view, but, honestly, a panel who were not there, hearing about it, will, openly or not, have an opinion that, what happened was not too bad, as you continued
Of course in reality what has happened is a very frightening situation.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#15
You maybe should have called it quits at that point. I get wanting to carry on for the other players and so on, but, continuing play takes some of the gloss away from a committes view on what happened.
Of course I understand from a referee point of view, but, honestly, a panel who were not there, hearing about it, will, openly or not, have an opinion that, what happened was not too bad, as you continued
Of course in reality what has happened is a very frightening situation.
Good point, I'll bear that in mind when someone chooses me from the menu
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#16
You maybe should have called it quits at that point. I get wanting to carry on for the other players and so on, but, continuing play takes some of the gloss away from a committes view on what happened.
Of course I understand from a referee point of view, but, honestly, a panel who were not there, hearing about it, will, openly or not, have an opinion that, what happened was not too bad, as you continued
Of course in reality what has happened is a very frightening situation.
I didn't abandon solely because I was hoping that last 10 minutes would give the perpetrator chance to calm down. The pitch is a few hundred metres away from the changing rooms with only one way back towards it. I'd do the same again
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#17
I didn't abandon solely because I was hoping that last 10 minutes would give the perpetrator chance to calm down. The pitch is a few hundred metres away from the changing rooms with only one way back towards it. I'd do the same again

Each to own as with most things. clearly your masterplan backfired in spectacular style and almost led you to being smacked in the mush in the changing room.
So to do it again means you are satisfied with how it played out.

Slightly off topic but in the dark days, when doing a report on a SFP sending off, the template was, how far away from it where you, did you have a clear view of it, how did you restart play, and was the opponent able to continue. This gave a the panel the best picture they could have of how bad the tackle was, no, its not fool proof but if they read Blue 6 was taken away in an ambulance, it emphasises how severe the tackle was, compared to, no treatment was needed, he was fine.
by continuing this game, (this is not a personal attack by me btw!!!) you have understated how threatened you were..

Mr E loves a good quote about doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result....I bow to his superior knowledge, it would be wise for 99% of mortals on earth to do the same....
 
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Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#18
Each to own as with most things. clearly your masterplan backfired in spectacular style and almost led you to being smacked in the mush in the changing room.
So to do it again means you are satisfied with how it played out.
Mr E loves a good quote about doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result....I bow to his superior knowledge, it would be wise for 99% of mortals on earth to do the same....
Interesting tone you've taken there. Somewhere between insulting and patronising. Poor.

The pitch is a long way away from the changing rooms. So far that you can't see them or the significant area between them and our pitch. You do as you see fit at the time. Abandon and there would've been violence in my opinion. Again, you do what you see fit at a time when there's a lot going on. Being there, it seemed the best thing to do and all things considered I think it was and I'd do it again facing those circumstances. Also, I'd abandon if I felt that would be the safest option, it's all circumstantial
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#19
Interesting tone you've taken there. Somewhere between insulting and patronising. Poor.

The pitch is a long way away from the changing rooms. So far that you can't see them or the significant area between them and our pitch. You do as you see fit at the time. Abandon and there would've been violence in my opinion. Again, you do what you see fit at a time when there's a lot going on. Being there, it seemed the best thing to do and all things considered I think it was and I'd do it again facing those circumstances. Also, I'd abandon if I felt that would be the safest option, it's all circumstantial
So it sounds like the game finished OK. Could you have swerved the changing rooms when leaving
I wouldn't question your decision and only have empathy for a colleague subjected to prolonged threats
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#20
So it sounds like the game finished OK. Could you have swerved the changing rooms when leaving
I wouldn't question your decision and only have empathy for a colleague subjected to prolonged threats
I'm afraid not. Gear was in the changing rooms. Thankfully all the kids games had finished just before we did. £25 match fee plus a £5 fee for fuel for this lol. I earn enough that I'm fortunate to not have to do this for anything other than enjoyment. Reflecting on the season as a whole, I'm not sure I enjoy Sunday League. Would be interesting to know how mant refs who officiate at level 5 etc stay in Sunday League. I honestly don't see a future for it. Players, clubs, refs and behavioural standards all in decline. I won't be returning to this league now and I shall inform the league secretary of this tomorrow. On the other hand, 80 games (72 in other leagues) and I've had no issues whatsoever. Nothing
 
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