RefSix

What I leaned this weekend

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#21
I'm afraid not. Gear was in the changing rooms. The other team scored the winner in the last few minutes which wasn't ideal lol but yeah probably 2 fouls in the last ten minutes. Like I said, it had been an excellent game but the away team always had the potential to blow up. Thankfully all the kids games had finished just before we did. £25 match fee plus a £5 fee for fuel for this lol. I earn enough that I'm fortunate to not have to do this for anything other than enjoyment. Reflecting on the season as a whole, I'm not sure I enjoy Sunday League. Would be interesting to know how mant refs who officiate at level 5 etc stay in Sunday League. I honestly don't see a future for it. Players, clubs, refs and behavioural standards all in decline. I won't be returning to this league now and I shall inform the league secretary of this tomorrow. On the other hand, 80 games (72 in other leagues) and I've had no issues whatsoever. Nothing[/QUOTE]
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#22
Interesting tone you've taken there. Somewhere between insulting and patronising. Poor.

The pitch is a long way away from the changing rooms. So far that you can't see them or the significant area between them and our pitch. You do as you see fit at the time. Abandon and there would've been violence in my opinion. Again, you do what you see fit at a time when there's a lot going on. Being there, it seemed the best thing to do and all things considered I think it was and I'd do it again facing those circumstances. Also, I'd abandon if I felt that would be the safest option, it's all circumstantial


You said the guy came at you in the dressing room. If he is going to come at you at all, you want it to be out there with 30 witnesses, not isolated in your room.
As you say, you did what you think was for the best, my 1% on it wont, and is not intended to change that.
A public park referee who is threatened, and pushed, should not be continuing the game, under ANY circumstances.
Its really as simple as that. You where threatened, then rather than remove yourself from the danger, you stayed in the middle of it
No referee experience or knowledge is needed to know what to do best there, only common sense

Perversely, if you feel my advice that your safety comes above the game itself is insulting, then, of course you are welcome to that viewpoint, as bizarre an outlook as I consider that.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#23
I'm afraid not. Gear was in the changing rooms. The other team scored the winner in the last few minutes which wasn't ideal lol but yeah probably 2 fouls in the last ten minutes. Like I said, it had been an excellent game but the away team always had the potential to blow up. Thankfully all the kids games had finished just before we did. £25 match fee plus a £5 fee for fuel for this lol. I earn enough that I'm fortunate to not have to do this for anything other than enjoyment. Reflecting on the season as a whole, I'm not sure I enjoy Sunday League. Would be interesting to know how mant refs who officiate at level 5 etc stay in Sunday League. I honestly don't see a future for it. Players, clubs, refs and behavioural standards all in decline. I won't be returning to this league now and I shall inform the league secretary of this tomorrow. On the other hand, 80 games (72 in other leagues) and I've had no issues whatsoever. Nothing
I lost it with the Imperial and never did another one.... Two lovely and now sadly deceased guys running the referees, it was a thankless task really. New guy in charge has nagged me for two seasons to return but bridges are burned and like Brexit, retired is retired for this league....
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#24
You said the guy came at you in the dressing room. If he is going to come at you at all, you want it to be out there with 30 witnesses, not isolated in your room.
As you say, you did what you think was for the best, my 1% on it wont, and is not intended to change that.
A public park referee who is threatened, and pushed, should not be continuing the game, under ANY circumstances.
Its really as simple as that. You where threatened, then rather than remove yourself from the danger, you stayed in the middle of it
No referee experience or knowledge is needed to know what to do best there, only common sense

Perversely, if you feel my advice that your safety comes above the game itself is insulting, then, of course you are welcome to that viewpoint, as bizarre an outlook as I consider that.
As I've said, remove myself to where to get away from the danger? One way in and one way out and alot of open grass in between (most of which you can't see from our pitch). I continued the game ane walked off with everyone else. My gear was in the same room as 15 other blokes.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#25
As I've said, remove myself to where to get away from the danger? One way in and one way out and alot of open grass in between (most of which you can't see from our pitch). I continued the game ane walked off with everyone else. My gear was in the same room as 15 other blokes.
That was the reason I left, I'd sent off 2 and booked about 5 from a team that were new to the League and plonked in D4, unbeaten all season and winning 2-1, captain called me a choice name awarding an absolute stick on penalty and another went for throwing a punch. They then missed a penalty in the last minute for 3-3 and it was all my fault that they'd lost... I was threatened walking from the pitch, found a 'deposit' in my bag and also threatened on the way to my car (before I found the 'bag'.... League and FA tried to cover it up..... It went to London eventually as I appealed 2 sham inquests. What came out at the end was truly shocking and the FA told me that it was a grey area!!! Still not being sorted today!!!
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#26
As I've said, remove myself to where to get away from the danger? One way in and one way out and alot of open grass in between (most of which you can't see from our pitch). I continued the game ane walked off with everyone else. My gear was in the same room as 15 other blokes.

Terminate the game and walk in with the other team?

anyways, you did what you thought best. Our association handbook has crystal clear instructions on what to do when threatened/ (assaulted?) on the pitch. Of course your association guidelines might well be different

Again must be a local thing because I cant ever recall sharing a room with a team. Nobody can be faulted for that. Now however its clear what can happen, being proactive going forward will eliminate the horrible experience you had. The over riding concern of which should be, that you are of course ok this evening.
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#27
Terminate the game and walk in with the other team?

anyways, you did what you thought best. Our association handbook has crystal clear instructions on what to do when threatened/ (assaulted?) on the pitch. Of course your association guidelines might well be different

Again must be a local thing because I cant ever recall sharing a room with a team. Nobody can be faulted for that. Now however its clear what can happen, being proactive going forward will eliminate the horrible experience you had. The over riding concern of which should be, that you are of course ok this evening.
Absolutely fine thanks. Won't give it a second thought, ive been around the game too long and been involved in much bigger scrapes with much bigger and better players when I played. I did walk in with the other team. There are several grounds in this league with no changing facilities at all. There's one which use a sports hall for all players to get changed and no other room.
 
#28
For various reasons, this weekend saw me taking charge of (2) OA games for the first time for a month or so. Reflecting on the three hours of football officiated, I’ve arrived at the following conclusions (nothing new or earth shattering, I write largely for my own benefit: formalising my thoughts is a helpful learning process, and, perhaps, just maybe, someone may benefit from reading my thoughts.)

1. Trust your whistle. I know a “fault” of mine is that I can sometimes backdown from giving a card (yellow) - once everybody has calmed down after the initial contact, I’ve sent away the aggrieved and moaning victim, and isolate the perpetrator, sometimes I go for a talking too rather than a card. Yesterday’s game, reckless tackle, long shrill whistle from me. Send everyone away etc., and I thought “trust your whistle - you gave that long(er) blow because you knew it should be card, so give the card.” And I did. No dramas. Today, similar: reckless tackle, he’s been done by poor pitch + lack of ability, no intent, but again, long(er) whistle. However, game temperature and the fact that this player had been good as gold for 75 mins, I went for talking too & not card. I didn’t trust my whistle. As opposition captain lined up to take free kick, he was asking why it wasn’t a card. I’d made a rod for my own back, I should have trusted my whistle and given a yellow. Four hours later, I’m still kicking myself. Lesson learned - trust your whistle: I tend to get the call (card or no card) right when I whistle (short peep or long blast) I just need to use that to inform my later actions.

2. Dissent: both games started quiet, but in both games, comments began as frustration crept in. Stepped approach, and followed through with a YC for dissent in both games earlier than I might normally do (38 mins in one game, 52 mins in other) In both games, ten mins after the cards, I noticed how dissent from all had gone. Lesson: stepped approach is good, but don’t leave it too late to step up to YC.
Do you ever use the option of the early-drawn card?

If it's a flashpoint, racing over with the card out can be useful sometimes, also saves you the trouble of having to second yourself;)
 

RefJef

RefChat Addict
#29
Do you ever use the option of the early-drawn card?

If it's a flashpoint, racing over with the card out can be useful sometimes, also saves you the trouble of having to second yourself;)
Thanks, that’s a useful suggestion, I may give it a go.

However, in the meantime, my personal target will be to “go with my whistle” - I think I’m quite good at varying my blow depending on the severity of the offence, what I need to do is develop that trust in my first instinct and not give myself that thinking time. You are right, a quick card would also eliminate that thinking time, Thanks again.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#30
Thanks, that’s a useful suggestion, I may give it a go.

However, in the meantime, my personal target will be to “go with my whistle” - I think I’m quite good at varying my blow depending on the severity of the offence, what I need to do is develop that trust in my first instinct and not give myself that thinking time. You are right, a quick card would also eliminate that thinking time, Thanks again.

Can I add my tuppence worth, the thinking time concept it admirable, although usually the thought would be, its yellow, should I be upgrading it to red.....
.
 

RefJef

RefChat Addict
#31
Can I add my tuppence worth, the thinking time concept it admirable, although usually the thought would be, its yellow, should I be upgrading it to red.....
.
Perhaps what I need to do, taking both yours and @santa sangria ‘s advice on board is to flash a quick red when I give a long double blow, and not give myself the time to talk myself out of the red.

I won’t flash the quick yellow, but give myself the thinking time to up it red if necessary, but absolutely listen to my whistle and stick to a yellow as a minimium. (<- I’m going to write this down and put it in my refs bag (whistle, cards, coin etc) as a little aide memoire)

Thanks to all for your thought and input - it’s been really useful to write down my thoughts, and get some useful advice and suggestions from more experienced colleagues.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#32
Your initial instinct is usually correct, lots of referees have seen a red card and then talked themselves out of it especially when players don't react like you would expect them to.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#33
Go home and reflect, even the best refs mess up, what worked, what would you do differently next time, what went wrong, what can you work on? It takes time, some take 50 games, some take 250, some never improve, some don’t actually care, some do it for the money. We’re all different, all with different levels and expectations. If in doubt ask! A problem shared is a problem halved.
 
Likes: JH

JH

RefChat Addict
#34
Thanks, that’s a useful suggestion, I may give it a go.

However, in the meantime, my personal target will be to “go with my whistle” - I think I’m quite good at varying my blow depending on the severity of the offence, what I need to do is develop that trust in my first instinct and not give myself that thinking time. You are right, a quick card would also eliminate that thinking time, Thanks again.
You make a great point about going with your whistle. I recall a game a couple of weeks ago, player slides in, takes man and then ball, clearly reckless. I blow strongly and the players go mental that it is even a foul (because they think getting the ball is all that matters, as usual), when the player reluctantly came to me I just gave him a talking to. The reaction to the foul made the card so unexpected which probably played on my mind, I wish I had been stronger and I like that advice because my natural reaction said caution.
 

JH

RefChat Addict
#35
Your initial instinct is usually correct, lots of referees have seen a red card and then talked themselves out of it especially when players don't react like you would expect them to.
I think there is a bit of hypocrisy or certainly crossover between what we are told by observers and the like. You often hear "but was it what the game/football expected" or "we don't want any surprises", thinking too much about what the players expected has unfortunately influenced my decisions before, as I said above.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#36
I think there is a bit of hypocrisy or certainly crossover between what we are told by observers and the like. You often hear "but was it what the game/football expected" or "we don't want any surprises", thinking too much about what the players expected has unfortunately influenced my decisions before, as I said above.
You find in most those cases observers may play devils advocate (not hypocrisy) to induce situation analysis in to the referee's thinking.
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
#39
I'm not a massive believer in the stepped approach. This morning I was getting the usual chirp from a player which instantly crossed the line... YC, not interested in speaking with the captain, who probably couldn't care less. That was it, dissent penalised at the first instance, no further dissent in the game
Yep. Spot on.

For me, too much is made of this "stepped approach" when it comes to game management.
It's a good thing when applied to foul play or other innocuous USB but for dissent - forget it. Dissent is dissent. Card it and deal with it.
With the Sin Bin coming in across all the OA leagues I operate in next season, it's ironic (for me) that this season happens to be the one where I've dished out more yellows for dissent than in any other previous season. Interesting times ahead ... :confused:
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
#40
Perhaps what I need to do, taking both yours and @santa sangria ‘s advice on board is to flash a quick red when I give a long double blow, and not give myself the time to talk myself out of the red.

I won’t flash the quick yellow, but give myself the thinking time to up it red if necessary, but absolutely listen to my whistle and stick to a yellow as a minimium. (<- I’m going to write this down and put it in my refs bag (whistle, cards, coin etc) as a little aide memoire)

Thanks to all for your thought and input - it’s been really useful to write down my thoughts, and get some useful advice and suggestions from more experienced colleagues.
Beware of "flashing cards" at grass roots level Jeff. It ain't the Premier league.

Irrespective of the incident in question, the severity of your whistle blast should indicate to all that a card is coming.

Follow the correct procedure every time: Whistle, (ensure injured player gets treatment if required), isolate offender, take name, explain decision, show card. :cool:
 
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