RefSix

What I leaned this weekend

JH

RefChat Addict
#41
Yep. Spot on.

For me, too much is made of this "stepped approach" when it comes to game management.
It's a good thing when applied to foul play or other innocuous USB but for dissent - forget it. Dissent is dissent. Card it and deal with it.
With the Sin Bin coming in across all the OA leagues I operate in next season, it's ironic (for me) that this season happens to be the one where I've dished out more yellows for dissent than in any other previous season. Interesting times ahead ... :confused:
When dissent is clear dissent, the stepped approach isn't necessary.

I think of it as different steps that you can enter at any time, depending on the severity of the behaviour and repeat behaviour will advance to the next step. But if there is clear dissent, there is no need to start at the bottom, go straight to YC. Likewise if there is behaviour that doesn't quite reach dissent but you need to be strong with, get the captain in on the first occasion or have a public rebuke with the player yourself. For low-level stuff, go up the steps as the player continues.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#42
Stepped approach is sometines misunderstood. It's more about dealing with everything even if they don't warrant a free kick or a card to prevent escalation. But if they do escalate, your punishment escalates with it. Or if it starts at a punishable level, you punish accordingly.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#43
Beware of "flashing cards" at grass roots level Jeff. It ain't the Premier league.

Irrespective of the incident in question, the severity of your whistle blast should indicate to all that a card is coming.

Follow the correct procedure every time: Whistle, (ensure injured player gets treatment if required), isolate offender, take name, explain decision, show card. :cool:
^^ This.... someone must of hacked @Kes account i guess, he's making sense all of a sudden!!
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#45
On a fans forum last night somebody posted,
"Whats the problem here, Gazette Italia from the San Siro looked like this every Sunday in the 90s"

But my fav was, "so much for an all weather pitch"
 

one

RefChat Addict
#46
The latest observer comment to stick in my head rent-free is "The penalty was soft, but he did trip him so..."

Then it isn't soft! :cry:
I think soft means on the lower end of careless and somewhat accidental. When someone says it was a soft free kick, it means they know it was a foul but they still want to have moan about it.

I had it in a game a couple of weeks ago I was an AR and it was from a player. "That was soft don't you think so?", "But still foul though, right?", "I suppose so".
 
#48
For various reasons, this weekend saw me taking charge of (2) OA games for the first time for a month or so. Reflecting on the three hours of football officiated, I’ve arrived at the following conclusions (nothing new or earth shattering, I write largely for my own benefit: formalising my thoughts is a helpful learning process, and, perhaps, just maybe, someone may benefit from reading my thoughts.)

1. Trust your whistle. I know a “fault” of mine is that I can sometimes backdown from giving a card (yellow) - once everybody has calmed down after the initial contact, I’ve sent away the aggrieved and moaning victim, and isolate the perpetrator, sometimes I go for a talking too rather than a card. Yesterday’s game, reckless tackle, long shrill whistle from me. Send everyone away etc., and I thought “trust your whistle - you gave that long(er) blow because you knew it should be card, so give the card.” And I did. No dramas. Today, similar: reckless tackle, he’s been done by poor pitch + lack of ability, no intent, but again, long(er) whistle. However, game temperature and the fact that this player had been good as gold for 75 mins, I went for talking too & not card. I didn’t trust my whistle. As opposition captain lined up to take free kick, he was asking why it wasn’t a card. I’d made a rod for my own back, I should have trusted my whistle and given a yellow. Four hours later, I’m still kicking myself. Lesson learned - trust your whistle: I tend to get the call (card or no card) right when I whistle (short peep or long blast) I just need to use that to inform my later actions.

2. Dissent: both games started quiet, but in both games, comments began as frustration crept in. Stepped approach, and followed through with a YC for dissent in both games earlier than I might normally do (38 mins in one game, 52 mins in other) In both games, ten mins after the cards, I noticed how dissent from all had gone. Lesson: stepped approach is good, but don’t leave it too late to step up to YC.
Great post.
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#49
Well a much better weekend this weekend. Vets semi final on Saturday, I was AR and the referee was superb. Experienced chap who had reffed at level 3 in the past and it showed. "Best team of officials we've had all year" etc. Couple of goals from close calls but the attacker was just onside both times.

Division 1 u18 match, top of the table clash today. 0 bookings, nothing contentious,one of them when you know you're on your game. Enjoyable

Straight to an u16 semi final in the afternoon. Booking in the 2nd minute for a reckless challenge and one in the last min for SPA. Apart from that nothing else of note to report, just a weekend when you feel on top form.

Handshakes from all 6 teams this weekend, which is great considering the importance of the games (not that im bothered about handshakes, its just a nicety). Compared to the incident last week it was an excellent weekends refereeing. Some nice comments to boot too.

I'll savour it whilst I can. I hope everyone else had good weekends to and if not, there's always next week. As my old manager used to say after a bad result but where we've given our best...."i won't give a **** come kick off next week and neither should you".
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
#50
Yep. Spot on.

For me, too much is made of this "stepped approach" when it comes to game management.
It's a good thing when applied to foul play or other innocuous USB but for dissent - forget it. Dissent is dissent. Card it and deal with it.
With the Sin Bin coming in across all the OA leagues I operate in next season, it's ironic (for me) that this season happens to be the one where I've dished out more yellows for dissent than in any other previous season. Interesting times ahead ... :confused:
100% agreed. At grassroots the times I've attempted it for dissent, it never works. The player is going to gob off regardless of whether the captain has a chat or not
 
#52
For various reasons, this weekend saw me taking charge of (2) OA games for the first time for a month or so. Reflecting on the three hours of football officiated, I’ve arrived at the following conclusions (nothing new or earth shattering, I write largely for my own benefit: formalising my thoughts is a helpful learning process, and, perhaps, just maybe, someone may benefit from reading my thoughts.)

1. Trust your whistle. I know a “fault” of mine is that I can sometimes backdown from giving a card (yellow) - once everybody has calmed down after the initial contact, I’ve sent away the aggrieved and moaning victim, and isolate the perpetrator, sometimes I go for a talking too rather than a card. Yesterday’s game, reckless tackle, long shrill whistle from me. Send everyone away etc., and I thought “trust your whistle - you gave that long(er) blow because you knew it should be card, so give the card.” And I did. No dramas. Today, similar: reckless tackle, he’s been done by poor pitch + lack of ability, no intent, but again, long(er) whistle. However, game temperature and the fact that this player had been good as gold for 75 mins, I went for talking too & not card. I didn’t trust my whistle. As opposition captain lined up to take free kick, he was asking why it wasn’t a card. I’d made a rod for my own back, I should have trusted my whistle and given a yellow. Four hours later, I’m still kicking myself. Lesson learned - trust your whistle: I tend to get the call (card or no card) right when I whistle (short peep or long blast) I just need to use that to inform my later actions.

2. Dissent: both games started quiet, but in both games, comments began as frustration crept in. Stepped approach, and followed through with a YC for dissent in both games earlier than I might normally do (38 mins in one game, 52 mins in other) In both games, ten mins after the cards, I noticed how dissent from all had gone. Lesson: stepped approach is good, but don’t leave it too late to step up to YC.
My thoughts...

1: I wouldn't say that this is a flaw. In fact, I would say it is a strength, when used correctly. Rather than reaching for the cards straight away, you can buy yourself time to think about a decision and it's sanction. Now you should never ever second guess yourself, if you think something is without a doubt a yellow or red, the best thing to do is stick to your guns.

However, if you're still making your mind up about a decision, you can assess the situation after it's all calmed down, buying yourself time, letting tempers cool and reaffirming match control.

2: Sometimes dissent is clear and it must be a yellow. Running up to you, grabbing at you to get your attention (within reason of course, anything violent or agressive is a red all day), slamming the ball down and sarcastically applauding all must be yellows every day of the week and Bank Holidays too.

However, if its manageable dissent, sometimes the best approach to take is an apologetic and sympathetic, yet firm and absolute one. Warn the player of their misconduct and say something along the lines of "if this carries on you're going to leave me with no choice, and I don't want it to come to that."

More often than not it does the trick, and makes you seem sympathetic. If you don't get anywhere, then the cards come out.
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
#53
Captains are sometimes bigger kn0bs than the dissenting player. Waste of space and time involving them
^Yeah, in my last match the captain was cautioned for dissent, gave away a penalty, did a two footer from behind and had to be restrained to stop from punching up some players (I sent him off), and then had to be restrained and escorted off post-match when he had it out with me.

Imagine telling him to sort his team's dissent out. He'd just have a giggle and encourage them!
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
#54
^Yeah, in my last match the captain was cautioned for dissent, gave away a penalty, did a two footer from behind and had to be restrained to stop from punching up some players (I sent him off), and then had to be restrained and escorted off post-match when he had it out with me.

Imagine telling him to sort his team's dissent out. He'd just have a giggle and encourage them!
I don't really understand this line of thought.

By the time you reach the "get the captain involved" part of the stepped procedure, you're going to be a minimum of 10 minutes into the match. If you haven't worked out at this point if the guy who shook your hand at the start of the match is the same guy who's been bending your ear for 10 minutes, awareness might need some work. If you#ve already worked out that the captain is chief troublemaker, you just skip straight to the cards.
 
#55
However, if its manageable dissent, sometimes the best approach to take is an apologetic and sympathetic, yet firm and absolute one. Warn the player of their misconduct and say something along the lines of "if this carries on you're going to leave me with no choice, and I don't want it to come to that."
Understand (and largely agree with) your overall point. However we need to be careful with language (warning, pedant alert :)). Dissent is dissent and needs to be carded just like reckless is reckless and needs the same sanction. What CAN often be managed is mild disagreement or immediate frustration.

Dissent is strong disagreement or dissatisfaction with a decision or opinion according to the dictionary definition and that's why non verbal dissent needs a decisive response as it's so obvious to everyone in the ground
 
#57
For various reasons, this weekend saw me taking charge of (2) OA games for the first time for a month or so. Reflecting on the three hours of football officiated, I’ve arrived at the following conclusions (nothing new or earth shattering, I write largely for my own benefit: formalising my thoughts is a helpful learning process, and, perhaps, just maybe, someone may benefit from reading my thoughts.)

1. Trust your whistle. I know a “fault” of mine is that I can sometimes backdown from giving a card (yellow) - once everybody has calmed down after the initial contact, I’ve sent away the aggrieved and moaning victim, and isolate the perpetrator, sometimes I go for a talking too rather than a card. Yesterday’s game, reckless tackle, long shrill whistle from me. Send everyone away etc., and I thought “trust your whistle - you gave that long(er) blow because you knew it should be card, so give the card.” And I did. No dramas. Today, similar: reckless tackle, he’s been done by poor pitch + lack of ability, no intent, but again, long(er) whistle. However, game temperature and the fact that this player had been good as gold for 75 mins, I went for talking too & not card. I didn’t trust my whistle. As opposition captain lined up to take free kick, he was asking why it wasn’t a card. I’d made a rod for my own back, I should have trusted my whistle and given a yellow. Four hours later, I’m still kicking myself. Lesson learned - trust your whistle: I tend to get the call (card or no card) right when I whistle (short peep or long blast) I just need to use that to inform my later actions.

2. Dissent: both games started quiet, but in both games, comments began as frustration crept in. Stepped approach, and followed through with a YC for dissent in both games earlier than I might normally do (38 mins in one game, 52 mins in other) In both games, ten mins after the cards, I noticed how dissent from all had gone. Lesson: stepped approach is good, but don’t leave it too late to step up to YC.
My advice always ref to the laws of the game if it’s a reckless challenge caution the player as other players will take matters in there own hands. I used to be mr nice guy did not work for me my new approach is more assertive and I know don’t explain decisions just say things like ‘just get on with the game’ I don’t tell you how to play don’t tell me how to referee’ be assertive if a player asks why wasn’t that a yellow just say something like I don’t have to explain by decisions to you go away
 

RefJef

RefChat Addict
#59
My advice always ref to the laws of the game if it’s a reckless challenge caution the player as other players will take matters in there own hands. I used to be mr nice guy did not work for me my new approach is more assertive and I know don’t explain decisions just say things like ‘just get on with the game’ I don’t tell you how to play don’t tell me how to referee’ be assertive if a player asks why wasn’t that a yellow just say something like I don’t have to explain by decisions to you go away

I think you may have missed the point of my post.

I was just sharing a bit of self-reflection, it’s not really about being Mr Nice Guy or not being assertive, it was more that my initial reaction was/is more often than not right, and subsequent thinking time can then actually cloud that initial, correct, judgement.
 
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