A&H

WHM v LIV

Anthony Taylor with 2 questionable performances in consecutive weeks, he didn't make many Roma friends last year and is now gearing up for a summer of European Championship refereeing.

Whilst none of us would condone the abuse an official recieves, and we can only imagine the challenge of refereeing top flight football, is AT looking a bit out of his depth? Because the errors that are being made seem to be fairly basic.
 
The Referee Store
Just like the Arsenal goal kick from a few weeks back....
Spirit of the Game... I generally don't want a goal scored from some kind of misunderstanding. I want good football to win a game
Regardless of what opinion I might express on the forum, I'd probably resort to SOTG in these situations whenever there's uncertainty about proceedings
 
GraemeS said:
Come on, be serious. Gakpo was about 5m away from kicking the ball into an empty net before AT incorrectly blew the whistle and invented an injury to stop him. If a player audibly and unfairly intervened like this, we'd be talking DOGSO.
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Maybe you should be serious when you talk about inquests into Liverpool being denied a legitimate goal.

At the point where AT stopped play, the ball was pretty much equidistant between Areola and Gakpo. Of course it’s a clear goal scoring opportunity but you certainly can’t just assume he would have scored to give your argument more oomph.
 
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RefereeX said:
Maybe you should be serious when you talk about inquests into Liverpool being denied a legitimate goal.

At the point where AT stopped play, the ball was pretty much equidistant between Areola and Gakpo. Of course it’s a clear goal scoring opportunity but you certainly can’t just assume he would have scored to give your argument more oomph.
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The GK never takes a single step - not towards the ball and not sideways to makes a save. Unless Gakpo chooses to hit it directly at a static GK who is stood to the side of the goal, that is a open net.
 
GraemeS said:
The GK never takes a single step - not towards the ball and not sideways to makes a save. Unless Gakpo chooses to hit it directly at a static GK who is stood to the side of the goal, that is an open net.
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So we’re agreed that there is a possibility that Gakpo doesn’t score?
You can not have any idea what Areola might have done if he didn’t hear the whistle…

Seeing as how you opted to use the fact that if a defender illegally intervened there it would be DOGSO, are you considering it DOGSO or DOG?

There’s your answer…
 
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A reminder; debate is healthy, disagreements accepted, and criticism should be constructive. Please don’t attack each other.
 
Ive seen the incident when it first happened. Don’t remember too clearly where Gakpo was - but regardless of this, AT is going to catch heat whatever way he goes.

In this instance he has applied the spirit of the law, and that’s gone against Liverpool. Let’s open an inquest? To say what - a match official applied law in a way that can be deemed correct to meet the expectations of stakeholder’s within the game.

I’m sure if Liv scored there’d be uproar from WHU fans. It’s just swings and roundabouts.

Every club is convinced there’s an agenda against them, it’s hard to watch.
 
Peter Grove said:
Because he realised that to justify his actions, he needed to make it look like the keeper was injured, when it was clear from his demeanour both before and after play was stopped, that he actually wasn't.
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Having thought about it, this for me is the bit that's really scandalous.

Make an incorrect decision regarding a foul or an injury - understandable.

Panic and whistling to bail out a GKs mistake - I'd expect better from a top official, but understandable human error.

Telling the keeper to fake an injury in order to cover up/excuse his mistake - unacceptable. The keeper was 100% ready to carry on and just misunderstood if he was supposed to be restarting with a FK or ball-in-hand. But because the ref has panicked and blown his whistle, the player is then encouraged to go to ground, receive treatment and run down the clock for treatment he didn't need or ask for, all due to a referee mistake. That's not OK.
 
george.g said:
Ive seen the incident when it first happened. Don’t remember too clearly where Gakpo was - but regardless of this, AT is going to catch heat whatever way he goes.

In this instance he has applied the spirit of the law, and that’s gone against Liverpool. Let’s open an inquest? To say what - a match official applied law in a way that can be deemed correct to meet the expectations of stakeholder’s within the game.

I’m sure if Liv scored there’d be uproar from WHU fans. It’s just swings and roundabouts.

Every club is convinced there’s an agenda against them, it’s hard to watch.
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Applied what law?

He's already applied the advantage law (arguably incorrectly, because there isn't really a foul), but even if you try to make the argument he is able to undo that advantage, that's not actually what happens. He restarts with a drop ball, which is only correct in law if the GK is injured. Which he wasn't until AT ran up to him and told him to go to the floor and request treatment.

At no point is anyone claiming an agenda, that's putting words in people's mouths. AT is supposed to be one of our top officials - but in this moment, he's panicked, made an incorrect decision that effectively stopped Liverpool scoring that goal that would have a) kept slim title hopes alive and b) guaranteed at least top 4 for them, and has then told a GK to fake an injury to try and cover that up. I'm not sure why anyone should think that's acceptable.
 
GraemeS said:
Applied what law?

He's already applied the advantage law (arguably incorrectly, because there isn't really a foul), but even if you try to make the argument he is able to undo that advantage, that's not actually what happens. He restarts with a drop ball, which is only correct in law if the GK is injured. Which he wasn't until AT ran up to him and told him to go to the floor and request treatment.

At no point is anyone claiming an agenda, that's putting words in people's mouths. AT is supposed to be one of our top officials - but in this moment, he's panicked, made an incorrect decision that effectively stopped Liverpool scoring that goal that would have a) kept slim title hopes alive and b) guaranteed at least top 4 for them, and has then told a GK to fake an injury to try and cover that up. I'm not sure why anyone should think that's acceptable.
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If he does say 'floor' as the video posted alleges, that still doesn't equate to him telling Areola to fake injury. It is clearly designed to help sell an injury situation, but that doesn't mean Areola wasn't feeling a knock.

If it wasn't for this thread, I wouldn't even know that this incident had happened. I haven't seen it mentioned on social media or the mainstream media. (That's not to say it hasn't been mentioned, but there's certainly not the major furore that you feel there should be). Personally, that tells me exactly what football expects.
 
RefereeX said:
If he does say 'floor' as the video posted alleges, that still doesn't equate to him telling Areola to fake injury. It is clearly designed to help sell an injury situation, but that doesn't mean Areola wasn't feeling a knock.

If it wasn't for this thread, I wouldn't even know that this incident had happened. I haven't seen it mentioned on social media or the mainstream media. (That's not to say it hasn't been mentioned, but there's certainly not the major furore that you feel there should be). Personally, that tells me exactly what football expects.
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The GK was setting up for a free kick. What GK who's team is trying to hold on for a draw does anything else other than collapse to the floor if there's even a hint of an injury? The suggestion that he was going to try and claim an injury here before AT's intervention is patently nonsense and you're not doing your post any favours by making stuff up like that.

Appeal to authority (in this case the media) is also a logical fallacy. I'm not particularly in the habit of deciding if referee decisions are right or not based on what someone who is employed to write a match report or someone who decides talking points for MOTD decides is important. There are a bunch of reasons why this isn't going to become a major fuss, up to and including the fact that Liverpool are considered to no longer be a going concern for the title and so poor decisions that affect their chase for 3rd don't make interesting stories. That doesn't mean it's not a fairly amateur mistake and a pretty embarrassing attempt to cover up that mistake.
 
RefereeX said:
If he does say 'floor' as the video posted alleges, that still doesn't equate to him telling Areola to fake injury. It is clearly designed to help sell an injury situation, but that doesn't mean Areola wasn't feeling a knock.

If it wasn't for this thread, I wouldn't even know that this incident had happened. I haven't seen it mentioned on social media or the mainstream media. (That's not to say it hasn't been mentioned, but there's certainly not the major furore that you feel there should be). Personally, that tells me exactly what football expects.
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The clip of this has 2.7M views on X from the match broadcaster TNT. For comparison, the touchline arguments between Klopp and Salah has 1.5M views on the same account. It has been a focal point on all coverage I have seen for this match.

Not that it's a great metric because if Taylor had allowed the goalscoring opportunity, it might have more views just for being an unusual goal. The only potential criticism of Taylor would have been for not awarding a free kick or sufficiently communicating the advantage.

It is obvious to everyone that Areola was not injured when Taylor blew his whistle, there's no reasonable ground to suggest that was Taylor's genuine belief.
 
GraemeS said:
The GK was setting up for a free kick. What GK who's team is trying to hold on for a draw does anything else other than collapse to the floor if there's even a hint of an injury? The suggestion that he was going to try and claim an injury here before AT's intervention is patently nonsense and you're not doing your post any favours by making stuff up like that.

Appeal to authority (in this case the media) is also a logical fallacy. I'm not particularly in the habit of deciding if referee decisions are right or not based on what someone who is employed to write a match report or someone who decides talking points for MOTD decides is important. There are a bunch of reasons why this isn't going to become a major fuss, up to and including the fact that Liverpool are considered to no longer be a going concern for the title and so poor decisions that affect their chase for 3rd don't make interesting stories. That doesn't mean it's not a fairly amateur mistake and a pretty embarrassing attempt to cover up that mistake.
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I haven't made anything up. Everything I've said has been purely based on fact. You're making many assumptions on things you can't possibly 100% sure such as beginning by saying Liverpool were denied a goal and that Areola was not even slightly injured. You're very dismissive of opinions that oppose yours.

I'm sorry, but the second part of your comment I can't agree with either. We've seen plenty of reaction to Wolves incidents this season despite the lack of interest based on their league position. Everyone in the media loves bashing referees presently, so I don't buy that Liverpool no longer being likely to win the title is any reason that this event has gone largely unnoticed.
 
I think the fact Dermot Gallagher even admitted the referee has made a mess of it says it all really. I think Anthony Taylor did whistle before Gakpo would of touched the ball(hence him stopping) so even if he scored, it wouldn't of counted.

Can't hide the fact its not good refereeing though and I understand Liverpool fans frustrations on it.
 
RefereeX said:
I haven't made anything up. Everything I've said has been purely based on fact. You're making many assumptions on things you can't possibly 100% sure such as beginning by saying Liverpool were denied a goal and that Areola was not even slightly injured. You're very dismissive of opinions that oppose yours.

I'm sorry, but the second part of your comment I can't agree with either. We've seen plenty of reaction to Wolves incidents this season despite the lack of interest based on their league position. Everyone in the media loves bashing referees presently, so I don't buy that Liverpool no longer being likely to win the title is any reason that this event has gone largely unnoticed.
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No. I'm dismissive of opinions that are based on nonsense and are attempting to drag the conversation off topic.

Note that you're not even attempting to discuss the decision to blow the whistle. Or to argue for any possible justification for AT instructing a keeper who isn't claiming to be injured to go down. Or even boring refereeing technicalities like how the justification for stopping doesn't match the restart.

Instead, you're trying to drag the conversation off by over-fixating on irrelevant details. Inventing injuries in a GK who makes no claim to be injured, imagining a premier league striker could somehow be expected to miss an undefended goal with a static ball 12 yards out, and trying to use a lack of MOTD coverage as a reason for why I shouldn't be complaining about this.
 
GraemeS said:
Applied what law?

He's already applied the advantage law (arguably incorrectly, because there isn't really a foul), but even if you try to make the argument he is able to undo that advantage, that's not actually what happens. He restarts with a drop ball, which is only correct in law if the GK is injured. Which he wasn't until AT ran up to him and told him to go to the floor and request treatment.

At no point is anyone claiming an agenda, that's putting words in people's mouths. AT is supposed to be one of our top officials - but in this moment, he's panicked, made an incorrect decision that effectively stopped Liverpool scoring that goal that would have a) kept slim title hopes alive and b) guaranteed at least top 4 for them, and has then told a GK to fake an injury to try and cover that up. I'm not sure why anyone should think that's acceptable.
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On the technicality he stops for the injury, is he incorrect in law to restart with a dropped ball?

Many injuries aren’t apparent, and while in this case the GK wasn’t writhing in pain, he has taken a knock potentially, and AT has applied the LOTG in such a way where he has stopped play and checked on the GK.

Telling him to go down is something I tell players, it gives them time to get their breath back and is rarely part of me ‘selling a stoppage’.

It’s untidy, but reffing isn’t pretty sometimes.
 
AT is correct in law, it's just very amateurish in how it was all handled by him. But I think they do get lazy with the basics, the further up they go.

I think the lack of coverage on MOTD is due to us already being out of the title race. If this had happened 3/4 weeks ago, there would have been a lot more uproar over it.
 
george.g said:
On the technicality he stops for the injury, is he incorrect in law to restart with a dropped ball?

Many injuries aren’t apparent, and while in this case the GK wasn’t writhing in pain, he has taken a knock potentially, and AT has applied the LOTG in such a way where he has stopped play and checked on the GK.

Telling him to go down is something I tell players, it gives them time to get their breath back and is rarely part of me ‘selling a stoppage’.

It’s untidy, but reffing isn’t pretty sometimes.
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After already assessing from nearby and then waving to play on? He then jogs another 20 yards, turns round and only then blows the whistle for an "injury", coincidentally exactly when Gakpo has started to run for the ball? Yeah I guess that makes it "right in law", but I don't know how you actually justify saying you've stopped it for an injury given the above.
 
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