The only thing I disliked at level 6 was getting used to the speed of the higher divisions and then getting assigned a game at the very bottom tier. The speed difference is so vast that it genuinely threw me off, and I had more trouble dealing with lower league games than I did the more faster paced upper-tier games.
First post - been reading for a month or so as I've recently qualified.
MIB - I started my course in October, officially passed in February to give some perspective on my experience. I'm a bit younger than you at 24 and come from a high level rugby background but with a couple of years in Sunday football as well. I started reffing because I was fed up with the standard at Championship level and needed an excuse to get back into fitness after injuries forced me from rugby. I also want to benefit the game of football in England. By all accounts the game is slowly dying at grass root football.
I've done two semi final's on the line and now been awarded two finals. I'm thrilled to have got them. I was the same as you for my first AR role. 'Why me? What have I done wrong? Rather ref' etc etc, difference is I never once questioned it didn't consider rejecting it and took it for what it was. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Yeah I wasn't involved as much, no big decisions like normal, half the money but I was needed. It was important, I helped the game go ahead, I gave both teams the fairest chance to get to a cup final, I helped football. My second AR game I was involved in writing a misconduct report for an off the ball incident. Without me the incident would have gone unpunished as the ref had his back to it. I was a vital part of the team.
Your attitude seems to be pretty **** if i'm honest. Every post you've made (I've read all off them as I felt we started around the same time and went through the same sort of stuff)goes on about being an ex player - who cares? Forget it. You are a ref on a Sunday, not an ex-player.
I have plans to go for a double jump promotion next year. Maybe my attitude is different because of this.
Just my two cents.
MIB - I started my course in October, officially passed in February to give some perspective on my experience. I'm a bit younger than you at 24 and come from a high level rugby background but with a couple of years in Sunday football as well. I started reffing because I was fed up with the standard at Championship level and needed an excuse to get back into fitness after injuries forced me from rugby. I also want to benefit the game of football in England. By all accounts the game is slowly dying at grass root football.
I've done two semi final's on the line and now been awarded two finals. I'm thrilled to have got them. I was the same as you for my first AR role. 'Why me? What have I done wrong? Rather ref' etc etc, difference is I never once questioned it didn't consider rejecting it and took it for what it was. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Yeah I wasn't involved as much, no big decisions like normal, half the money but I was needed. It was important, I helped the game go ahead, I gave both teams the fairest chance to get to a cup final, I helped football. My second AR game I was involved in writing a misconduct report for an off the ball incident. Without me the incident would have gone unpunished as the ref had his back to it. I was a vital part of the team.
Your attitude seems to be pretty **** if i'm honest. Every post you've made (I've read all off them as I felt we started around the same time and went through the same sort of stuff)goes on about being an ex player - who cares? Forget it. You are a ref on a Sunday, not an ex-player.
I have plans to go for a double jump promotion next year. Maybe my attitude is different because of this.
Just my two cents.
D
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Good man, fair play with your progression aspirations & at 24 you’ve got 10yrs on me I hope you go a long way.
Tbh I think my AR appointment and now knowing that level 7-5 referees there isn’t a great deal of difference apart from maybe your league will give you higher division games it’s a given me food for thought, what do I really want to get out of this & what am i prepared to put into it.
Hand on heart I’ve woken up some mornings to ref and said to the Mrs I could do without this today but I’ve got 22 players and associates relying on me so let’s go do this, I wouldn’t want to let them down, so I get your experience & what you say about being part of a team playing your part even if it is on the line etc.
I think I come accross a lot worse on here than what I am, I’ve got time for anyone & will always muck in, I guess I had the wrong attitude regarding the AR appointment BUT even more I need to evaluate and decide how far & why I’m refereeing in the first place, I think that’s why I Didn’t want to run the line in the first place it’s because I’m comfortable and enjoying what I’m doing in the middle, maybe I’m not to interested in progression & doing the whole promotion thing like most people, I’m not the only one that has taken this viewpoint look back at Sheff finest’s take on it, he’s stated he didnt like the line & didn’t want to do it & he also didn’t want to partake in the promotion scheme.
Anyway love me or hate me I say what I think & im honest, I’m not going to appologise for that.
@Men in Black - This is your refereeing journey and you will take out as much as you are willing to put in. I know its an old cliche but it is so true.
My refereeing journey follows a similar path to yours, i was playing up until my mid 30's then ran a couple of teams and as this all came to an end I wanted to stay involved in football and refereeing seemed to be a logical step.
When I first started I had no real aspirations for my refereeing journey but, similarly to you, I felt I could do a better job than some of the officials currently doing it, especially as they have been around since I started OA football. I tried to referee the game the way I wanted it refereeing as a player, my first game I don't even remember doing a boot check as I didn't want to be "That" referee, i do equipment checks religiously now so much so I have them all line up on the nearest white line and walk up to check the boots and down to check the jewelry.
All teams want is a referee to apply the LoTG fairly and consistently, we are there after all to facilitate the game of football!
Over time I joined the promotion scheme as it was a great way to get feedback on what you do well and what you need to improve. I also did a couple of AR appointments early on and it was great to be part of a team and to see other referees in action. Much like playing its about getting into good habits and its those referees who don't have good habits who are still at L7 doing the worst games. (NOTE: Not all referees at L7 have bad habits, I know some really good L7 referees who have never wanted to be promoted)
My first season i was probably too lenient (no one wants a booking on a sunday morning) despite all the abuse/dissent, I even felt like jacking it in thinking it wasn't right for me, year 2 i was probably too strict and only now after 3 years did I feel ready to progress. I gained promotion from 7-6, officiated in a prestigious local cup final and been awarded a county cup final line. I have started taking AR appointments on supply leagues which is another experience altogether (1-1.5 hour meets before each game, suits, post game refreshments etc) but I have learnt so much doing those appointments with L4 referees that I feel my refereeing has improved.
No one is Howard Webb after completing the course and we all find our own "way" of refereeing but it does happen over time and once you get to that point you should start to enjoy it more.
My refereeing journey follows a similar path to yours, i was playing up until my mid 30's then ran a couple of teams and as this all came to an end I wanted to stay involved in football and refereeing seemed to be a logical step.
When I first started I had no real aspirations for my refereeing journey but, similarly to you, I felt I could do a better job than some of the officials currently doing it, especially as they have been around since I started OA football. I tried to referee the game the way I wanted it refereeing as a player, my first game I don't even remember doing a boot check as I didn't want to be "That" referee, i do equipment checks religiously now so much so I have them all line up on the nearest white line and walk up to check the boots and down to check the jewelry.
All teams want is a referee to apply the LoTG fairly and consistently, we are there after all to facilitate the game of football!
Over time I joined the promotion scheme as it was a great way to get feedback on what you do well and what you need to improve. I also did a couple of AR appointments early on and it was great to be part of a team and to see other referees in action. Much like playing its about getting into good habits and its those referees who don't have good habits who are still at L7 doing the worst games. (NOTE: Not all referees at L7 have bad habits, I know some really good L7 referees who have never wanted to be promoted)
My first season i was probably too lenient (no one wants a booking on a sunday morning) despite all the abuse/dissent, I even felt like jacking it in thinking it wasn't right for me, year 2 i was probably too strict and only now after 3 years did I feel ready to progress. I gained promotion from 7-6, officiated in a prestigious local cup final and been awarded a county cup final line. I have started taking AR appointments on supply leagues which is another experience altogether (1-1.5 hour meets before each game, suits, post game refreshments etc) but I have learnt so much doing those appointments with L4 referees that I feel my refereeing has improved.
No one is Howard Webb after completing the course and we all find our own "way" of refereeing but it does happen over time and once you get to that point you should start to enjoy it more.
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Cheers for that, I was enjoying it & in a little groove of refereeing & then got put on the line, I’m a creature of habit & just thought leave off I’m happy doing what I’m doing.
I’m enjoying it but I’m not one for rules and regulations, so if anything more than level 7 means climbing that structured ladder with all the AR appointments and doing this doing that, all the club marks & assessments etc then I need to maybe ref for a full season & evalute what I want out of it because at the moment none of the above appeals to me tbh, I’ve got a busy job Mrs newish baby, quite a lot of other things going on so i need to work out eventually what I’m gonna do that’s if I don’t go back to playing altogether or switch between the two each week, just roll with it I guess and see where it takes me.
It is your choice whether you want to advance / get promotion. Some referees, due to circumstances don't want / are unable to be on the promotion schemes. They still enjoy refereeing at their level and will get some good games.
Promotion will develop your refereeing skills, as you will have more advice and be seen by more experienced officials. Some say there is no different between a L5 & L7 - it does matter for your County Cup appointments. L5 stand a chance of CFA lines and sometimes middles. Also they can be appointed a NAR's to the very early rounds of the FA Cup. However, there is a time requirement for a minimum number of games, training sessions, etc.
However, not doing NAR duties will hold you back. The top matches will not come to you and you will not learn from watching other officials.
D
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The whole learning from other officials bit I don’t get, I didn’t have too many opportunities or the best view to watch the referee yesterday if anything I was watching the other Lino, I’d learn more from watching a game at my own leisure on a Sunday morning.
I think the whole AR at a higher level is a waste of valuable refereeing time at your own level, it’s just one of those bullsh*t traditions that the powers that be keep going.
And that’s without going into my views on the FA & the way they have dealt with a variety of issues lately, I’m ashamed and disgusted to be assigned to them to be honest.
I think the whole AR at a higher level is a waste of valuable refereeing time at your own level, it’s just one of those bullsh*t traditions that the powers that be keep going.
And that’s without going into my views on the FA & the way they have dealt with a variety of issues lately, I’m ashamed and disgusted to be assigned to them to be honest.
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Well no its not actually. Its a way to facilitate football matches. To ensure that games played at supply league have a team of 3 refereeing them. As I said earlier. Its part of the job. You dont get to pick one or the other until you get to level 3 and been there for 3-4 years.
Not everyone wants to do it. Certainly not every1 is cut out to do it. But its a must do. As a referee you work hard all year to hopefully play a part in the big games. Thats where the satisfaction comes from. At the end of the season you are picked over your peers to officiate the grand events at the end of the season. But hey if you dont want that, thats cool - more chance for the rest of us.
I honestly cant believe you barely learnt anything. Id go as far as to say it sounds like you didnt want to.
RefJef
RefChat Addict
@Men in Black Referreeing should (at least when we all start out) be a hobby. Do what you enjoy, and don’t do what you don’t want to.
I ain’t going to go for promotion (from my level 7) because, due to work commitments I can’t regularly commit to Saturdays. I enjoy ref-ing at the level I do, when I stop enjoying it, I’ll stop.
The two advantages I miss out on by not going for promotion are: 1.) I miss out on feedback from observed games; 2) there is a local midweek U18 floodlit league that I’d like to do, but you have to be a 5 for that (have done the line on that league a couple of times). The advantages of not going for promotion: no need to worry about club marks, can say “no” when your busy/don’t fancy something. I don’t want to be having to turn up to a ground an hour or more before kick off, and hanging around afterwards, I want to rock up*, ref, and go having enjoyed a couple of hours involved in grass roots football.
Initially, just concentrate on enjoying what you do. Then see where that takes you.
*before I get slated, I always arrive at least 30 mins before kick off, giving me enough time to do a pitch inspection, kit check & warm up before kick off
I ain’t going to go for promotion (from my level 7) because, due to work commitments I can’t regularly commit to Saturdays. I enjoy ref-ing at the level I do, when I stop enjoying it, I’ll stop.
The two advantages I miss out on by not going for promotion are: 1.) I miss out on feedback from observed games; 2) there is a local midweek U18 floodlit league that I’d like to do, but you have to be a 5 for that (have done the line on that league a couple of times). The advantages of not going for promotion: no need to worry about club marks, can say “no” when your busy/don’t fancy something. I don’t want to be having to turn up to a ground an hour or more before kick off, and hanging around afterwards, I want to rock up*, ref, and go having enjoyed a couple of hours involved in grass roots football.
Initially, just concentrate on enjoying what you do. Then see where that takes you.
*before I get slated, I always arrive at least 30 mins before kick off, giving me enough time to do a pitch inspection, kit check & warm up before kick off
PP62
Well-Known Member
You won't get slated because you've made a great case for what you want to do. You're right, it is a hobby and nobody should feel under pressure to chase promotions if it's not for them.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Same as you Jeff - never gone for promotion, but always do the best I can in a professional manner whether on the line or in the middle.
I've gone 'freelance' as it were this season, committing to only 1 match per month in my local youth league and being 'signed up' for Bostick U18s and U23 lines. The rest of my games I pick up from 'We need officials' emails or direct from County.
Looking at my records from my 33 games in 17/18 so far, I have officiated in 15 different comps and within those comps have officiated in different leagues.
I still have a final (AR) to come in another 'new' comp I haven't been on this season.
Probably end up doing 35 - 40 games by season end, which isn't a lot compared to some, but I'm very happy with the level, variety and number of games I have done. Of course, not every game is fantastic - was AR recently on a very one side U23 match where I had literally nothing to do for the 2nd half - but surely football in general is like that. As you well know MIB, not every game at LR is a bundle of fun!
IMHO you need to find a level/comps you're happy with - promotion or not, but as others have said, point blank refusing to be an AR EVER is going to severely restrict your refereeing life regardless of the level you end up/aspire to.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Jeff - wanted to ask - did YOU not enjoy the higher level AR matches you have done?
Yes you have to get 'dressed up' a bit and arrive a hour or so before kick off, but you DO get proper dressing rooms, some food and drink afterwards and the chance to work with/learn from/meet other officials.
I metioned before that I was AR on Youth County Cup Semi - referee didn't turn up, other AR turned up 10 mins before KO and both teams were wearing identical kit, the penalty areas were too small and the penalty marks 10 yards from goal! Ended up being in the middle with5 yellows and 1 red.
Enjoyable in a way but those sort of things DO make you hanker after a professionally run league or two!
Yes you have to get 'dressed up' a bit and arrive a hour or so before kick off, but you DO get proper dressing rooms, some food and drink afterwards and the chance to work with/learn from/meet other officials.
I metioned before that I was AR on Youth County Cup Semi - referee didn't turn up, other AR turned up 10 mins before KO and both teams were wearing identical kit, the penalty areas were too small and the penalty marks 10 yards from goal! Ended up being in the middle with5 yellows and 1 red.
Enjoyable in a way but those sort of things DO make you hanker after a professionally run league or two!
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
So you think running the line at a higher level is a “bullshit tradition” and you are “ashamed and disgusted” by the FA?
Why did you become a referee then?
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
You might not get a shower of insight during the game. Just a couple of little things, good or bad, from your ref. My 22 year old from this weekend did a great one handed advantage on the run, but did two flash yellow cards to players walking away that I thought he should have made more ceremonial to benefit match control, even though it looked "from the telly". And his first whistles of both halves were extra strong. ...I couldn't follow his movement... I couldn't recount every foul decision... but I got something.
And then you have to ask. Maybe not at half time but deffo at full time. And tell. Find something positive to tell your ref and ask about something new. "I liked the warning you gave to the two players after the goal before kick - what did you say to keep it so short?" "I would have gone corner on that last disputed GK just before time, but you were so much closer, so of course I didn't want to flag it..." Then tell your colleagues what you learnt. You can always find one thing, even if it's a "I won't do that again"... even the most obdurate ref has something positive you can take away.
And if this all feels a bit too nicey nicey: your colleagues are also your competition. My fast track logic is to learn what they do best and try to do it better.
PS I don't think you are a troll. I appreciate your honesty.
It's a fair point that it's entirely possible to pick up tips and tricks even from a ref who you don't particularly rate. Either by singling out the good thing he does in a poor performance, or by seeing mistakes he makes and avoiding them yourself.
The main example of this that springs to mind for me was a ref who took up some very wide positions for some set pieces, which is something I've tried to introduce into my game. But at the same time, he had a really tough game, and I put a lot of that down to him missing 3 early opportunities to get a dissent caution in the book and clamp some authority on the match. Something I've been concious to avoid since.
The main example of this that springs to mind for me was a ref who took up some very wide positions for some set pieces, which is something I've tried to introduce into my game. But at the same time, he had a really tough game, and I put a lot of that down to him missing 3 early opportunities to get a dissent caution in the book and clamp some authority on the match. Something I've been concious to avoid since.
RefJef
RefChat Addict
I do enjoy AR-ing - I like working as part of a team, and I have learned a lot from it, but (and I appreciate I'm not unique in this) my free-time is quite limited so I can only spare so much time for ref-ing so I'd rather spend the bulk of that time running around in the middle.
D
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Always had preconceptions of the FA (dated organisation, bit like fifa etc heard bad story’s time & time again) but didn’t have a lot of choice for obvious reasons as it’s part refereeing.
But hearing horror story’s lately of the way the FA have dealt with young referees and referees incidents etc has appauled me, the FA give in my opinion zero support at hearings and it’s just a formality that the offenders get off with a slapped wrist.
The victims of the Barry Bennell case, heard how the FA dealt with there request to set up a programme within youth football etc utter disgrace.
Even upto the appointment of the England manager which is a joke time & time again, either a yes man or a overseas on 6m a year.
It’s a who you know dated old boys club.
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Wouldn't mind being a NAR for MIB in the middle. I'd bet on being educational all right...
Haha you’d probably need nurofen and a sit down after the game.
On a serious note my positioning my laws of the game are not upto scratch you could probably pick holes in me all day long BUT keeping control of a game is my strong point and keeping players in check is what I enjoy, I wish for a game with something to ref but I keep getting footballing sides that give me an easy afternoon, my cards are gathering dust in my top pocket.
Good response, I was trolling you, but you're troll resistant!