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JH

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Very surprised that such a good referee would get such an easy red card decision wrong, VAR saves the day.
 
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Best referee in the world missed a clear red card there.

Just as the best referee in the world missed a clear red card in the 2010 World Cup final.
 
Best referee in the world missed a clear red card there.

Just as the best referee in the world missed a clear red card in the 2010 World Cup final.
Difference is Kuipers had an unobstructed view and decided it wasn't SFP! Webb guessed!

I'm a huge fan of Kuipers which is why I was shocked to see this clear error.
 
Notice the VAR say immediately upon seeing the challenge: "It's a red card".
 
Notice the VAR say immediately upon seeing the challenge: "It's a red card".

Makes it all the more baffling they go on to watch another 20+ replays. It’s a clear red after 1 replay, why delay?
 
Makes it all the more baffling they go on to watch another 20+ replays. It’s a clear red after 1 replay, why delay?

Because angles sometime deceive. No way do we want VAR telling the R to change a call based on one angle--if it's a deceptive angle, then they could be reversing a correct call. They also want to figure out (as quickly as they can) the best angles to show the R for OFR.
 
Because angles sometime deceive. No way do we want VAR telling the R to change a call based on one angle--if it's a deceptive angle, then they could be reversing a correct call. They also want to figure out (as quickly as they can) the best angles to show the R for OFR.

I agree, that theory holds water in some cases, but 2, 3 looks maximum, is all that is needed here. Thankfully the PL have decided to 'discourage' referees from looking at monitor and most decisions will be made by VAR and confirmed by ref without looking at (yet another) replay.
 
I agree, that theory holds water in some cases, but 2, 3 looks maximum, is all that is needed here. Thankfully the PL have decided to 'discourage' referees from looking at monitor and most decisions will be made by VAR and confirmed by ref without looking at (yet another) replay.

I don't know what their protocol is and what they are expected to do to follow through--this play certainly seems an outlier in how clear it is.

It is going to be interesting to see how it plays out with less or no OFR. I absolutely think some places have gone too far with OFR--including using it to sell decisions, which I think is stupid. I'm not, however, so enthralled with the idea that the R is going to be "overruled" on judgment calls by an official in the box. Hopefully the R will retain discretion to take a look rather than blindly accepting the advice from the booth to change his decision.
 
I guess its like been said tons before, one of worlds top refs being told he got a call wrong, the ref is not going to simply take the world of an onion, he needs to be sure for himself....

Human nature, I would do same, if I had seen it, went yellow, then, someone ("" who I might deem as beneath me"") is telling me its a red, then, I want to see it.
Call it lack of trust, call it arrogance, but, its life.
 
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I guess its like been said tons before, one of worlds top refs being told he got a call wrong, the ref is not going to simply take the world of an onion, he needs to be sure for himself....

Human nature, I would do same, if I had seen it, went yellow, then, someone ("" who I might deem as beneath me"") is telling me its a red, then, I want to see it.
Call it lack of trust, call it arrogance, but, its life.

Or maybe he's just doing what he's supposed to. As I understand the protocol, for a judgment call--which this is, albeit an easy one--the R is required to do an OFR. I think a better protocol would be to give the R the discretion to simply accept input from the VAR in appropriate cases.
 
Or maybe he's just doing what he's supposed to. As I understand the protocol, for a judgment call--which this is, albeit an easy one--the R is required to do an OFR. I think a better protocol would be to give the R the discretion to simply accept input from the VAR in appropriate cases.


There is still (at present) no way an elite guy is going to simply take the word of Baldrick.
 
There is still (at present) no way an elite guy is going to simply take the word of Baldrick.

They will in England next season, and has already happened in the trials. As I understand it the referee will only go to the pitch side monitor in very borderline circumstances, and that is how it should be in my opinion. It may well be Oliver in the middle being told by Mason from VAR that it is a penalty, he will accept it and just give the penalty unless he is told VAR aren't 100% sure.
 
They will in England next season, and has already happened in the trials. As I understand it the referee will only go to the pitch side monitor in very borderline circumstances, and that is how it should be in my opinion. It may well be Oliver in the middle being told by Mason from VAR that it is a penalty, he will accept it and just give the penalty unless he is told VAR aren't 100% sure.
Although it's worth pointing out, we have no idea how they intend to handle the real shortage of SG1 ref's. With VAR they'll need 3 ref's on each game - if they decide to compromise by letting SG2 be the VAR, we might end up with more OFR's than the FA want
 
I agree, that theory holds water in some cases, but 2, 3 looks maximum, is all that is needed here. Thankfully the PL have decided to 'discourage' referees from looking at monitor and most decisions will be made by VAR and confirmed by ref without looking at (yet another) replay.
Although I agree in principle i'd be very careful with how you word that. VAR don not make game decisions. They make recommendations. All decisions are made by the referee which may simply be accepting the recommendation of VAR.

Or maybe he's just doing what he's supposed to. As I understand the protocol, for a judgment call--which this is, albeit an easy one--the R is required to do an OFR. I think a better protocol would be to give the R the discretion to simply accept input from the VAR in appropriate cases.

Not so for the first part and already in place for the second part. Doesn't quite work when there is no trust between R and VAR. I must add sometimes VAR explicitly asks R to do an OFR. But for OP it should have been "No need for OFR mate, it's a red clear as day and an easy sell". I am sure any player who saw it would have known it's a red as well.

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Although it's worth pointing out, we have no idea how they intend to handle the real shortage of SG1 ref's. With VAR they'll need 3 ref's on each game - if they decide to compromise by letting SG2 be the VAR, we might end up with more OFR's than the FA want
Not sure why the 4th official needs to be an SG1 referee in the first place?
 
Not so for the first part and already in place for the second part. Doesn't quite work when there is no trust between R and VAR. I must add sometimes VAR explicitly asks R to do an OFR. But for OP it should have been "No need for OFR mate, it's a red clear as day and an easy sell". I am sure any player who saw it would have known it's a red as well.

There is the specifics mandates in the LOTG, and there are the protocols/directions given by the competition. My understanding is that the expectation from leagues that have adopted VAR, other than in the PL discussions, has been that the R take a look before changing a subjective decision--whether to maintain the clarity that the R is making the decision (not the guy upstairs) or for purposes of selling calls. (But I could be over generalizing.)

Not sure why the 4th official needs to be an SG1 referee in the first place?

The once every three or four years that he actually has to take over on the field?
 
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