5-4
- Thread starter Egg man
- Start date
Purely depends on your local Geography
Generally, the answer will be no, but the answer for me was yes as the Spartan South Midlands have 5-to-4s reffing Step 6
Very geography dependant then! My local league has 3 divisions that are effectively steps 7-5.
Step 7 is reffed by L5s with CARs (albeit they seem to be a higher standard of CAR than usual) and then the step 6 is 5-4s and the step 5 is L4s if available, but can be covered by any 5-4 that has passed their fitness test if needed. NARs at both those steps.
Step 7 is reffed by L5s with CARs (albeit they seem to be a higher standard of CAR than usual) and then the step 6 is 5-4s and the step 5 is L4s if available, but can be covered by any 5-4 that has passed their fitness test if needed. NARs at both those steps.
I got a few games when going from 5-4 at step 6. Usually during the Vase prelims where the 4s are on cup duty
It depends whether the 6 step league has what used to be called supply league status. For those leagues both their step 5 and step 6 division are refereed by L4s and are used to observe them on. Around me the Spartan South Midlands and Combined Counties only use L4s on their step 5 divisions, and step 6 games are typically refereed by experienced L5s or 5 to 4 promotion candidates. The Essex Senior League doesn't have a step 6 division, whereas the Eastern Counties League uses L4s on both the step 5 and 6 divisions.
All sounds very location dependant. I am about to start my 6-5 but as being part of Surrey FA CORE I will be pushing for 5-4 next season while working on the combined counties. This will be made all the more difficult by a distinct over population of Level 4s in this area. From what I've heard working with people on the combined counties is that all of step 5 is L4, and step 6 (CCFL Div 1) is becoming more and more saturated with L4s.
I'm told it will no longer be location dependant, although it will take a year or two before every S6 game is a L4
In my personal experience, Step 6 games are been more challenging to referee than Step 5. This conclusion is now based on a lot of games at both levels
R
Runner-Ref
Guest
I'd certainly agree with this from a player behaviour aspect.
I'd agree with this. When I stepped down from L3 to L5 I did games on the supply league step 6 division I came through, the same as you, and I was waving cards around all over the place. The behaviour was pretty poor, and I got the impression they were used to getting away with it as they would usually have inexperienced referees coming through the ranks, not an old git, and crucially not an old git that didn't care about his club marks.
R
Runner-Ref
Guest
Completely agree.
I dropped down from L3 to L4 and my card count shot up. I had one game in which I sent someone off for the easiest second cautions I have ever had. They just could not get their head around why I had done it, as 'refs normally let us off with those'.
As you say, they're probably used to having refs who are terrified about their club marks
I wonder if you actually got butchered in your club marks for doing it.
As if you did surely that is clubs essentially using the mark system to pressure referees into deliberately not following the LOTG.
R
Runner-Ref
Guest
Yep, that particular club did. And this is where the whole club marks system is wrong.
But we've discussed that many many times
In one of the first step 6 games I did when I dropped down to L5 the away team had a player manager. Just before half time as a corner was about to be taken I saw one of his players sneakily push an opponent in the back of his head, causing him to headbutt a home player, and they then all appealed for a red card. It duly came, but for the away player who pushed his opponent's head and therefore caused the butt. The player manager, a yappy little thing who had been moaning all game, took his protests way too far so I said "OK, you can go and join him then" and showed him a red card.
After the game he came up to me and said he would be giving me the lowest mark the league has ever seen. I just said OK, smiled at him and said that he 'd have plenty of time to write the report given his upcoming suspension. A few days later I got a call from the appointments officer asking what I'd done to upset the away team, so I explained what had happened. He then said there had been a complaint about me insulting the player manager, once I explained what I had said he bust out laughing and said well done. These people think they can bully the young and inexperienced referees, then cry like babies when someone gives it back with interest.
R
Runner-Ref
Guest
Totally agree. They can give it all day long but can't take it (even though its rare a referee actually says anything of note to them)
As you progress through the ranks, player behaviour becomes far better. I always found Northern Prem games to be far easier to manage than NW Counties games. Yes the NP games were faster, but the skill level meant you can read player easier and the players would generally work with you. As you go down, an awful lot more players just want to moan and bully as @RustyRef says.
But I do totally understand how referees can be swayed like this, as the club marks could potentially affect them. When I went back down to L4, I found the behaviour to be worse than it had been my first time around.
I respect it. But any referee that wants to progress can't do this.
These are literal examples of a referee doing the correct by law, but unpopular by what the game expects and being punished for it.
Not so true anymore. FA are making a very clear move away from weighting club marks so heavily and even still there is now the assessment route still open to those refs who perform well in observer ranking and bottom 20% for clubs.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
As a referee I would have done what @RustyRef did, both for the push and the manager's behaviour.
Now, as an Observer, I would expect the same outcome.
Club marks are becoming less important these days, and Appointment Secretaries recognise the unfair ones (as happened with @RustyRef) and often act accordingly.
Not necessarily. As I've said before, in the season I went from 4 to 3 I averaged almost a red card a game but still finished top on observers and clubs. I've never been one to pander to clubs but I never really had a problem with club marks in the merit tables.
What clubs hate are unexpected cards, e.g. dissent or OFFINABUS where no one has heard what has been said. The biggest cause of low club marks at L4 is where referees have more dissent cautions than for fouls, and that should be setting alarm bells off with the referees involved.