A Madrid v City
- Thread starter Ryanj91
- Start date
It is common for one of the quarter final referees to do the final, indeed many European competitions select the final referee from the best performing quarter final referee, so don't really see why Makkelie would be ruled out. I completely understand there were logistical challenges, but the fact remains he was a very inexperienced referee for such a big game. And despite that I thought he did well overall, and if there should be any criticism it should be towards VAR who have somehow managed to miss two clear acts of VC.
And maybe, just maybe, had a number of THAT type of matches during his rise from parks to UCL.
He has refereed Ath Madrid in Europe this season v Liverpool in Group stages in fact sent of Griezmann for high foot on Firmino in 52nd minute, so he isn’t shy of issuing red card If feels the need to.
I wasn't going to bother with this thread, no matter how tempting to observe that a foreign ref fails to give early YC and it's terrible but in the EPL it's good game management.
But this post is just victim blaming.
Anubis
RefChat Addict
You dont class Fodens actions as an affront to the game?
he gets fouled, then kicked on the follow through, no doubts
but to roll, roll,roll.roll,roll......is blatent gamesmanship and pure theatre.
if i kicked you today like that, you might fall. You would not impersonate being trapped in a washing machine. Only in football does getting a blow to the ankle result in a catherine wheel, whereas the rest of society goes, ah, my leg.
am sure folk have seen Karate Kid, and, Sweep the Leg. Daniel Son, slumped to the floor, after being mullered by a martial arts expert. No forward rolls, nothing.
pure theatre
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that’s modern day football for you. It does my head in
Absolutely agree here. I think the over-acting/gamesmanship is a dangerous precedent - how are we to know when there is an actual injury.
I did read somewhere once that ‘rolling around’ is actually a psychological method of pain management, but I ere to agree with @Anubis that in many instances in the professional game it is theatre!
I just felt that the general behaviour in this game was really poor and what was most disappointing is that many of the antics were expected, especially those of the AM management.
I am somewhat bemused that VAR didn’t deal with the clear and obvious missed violent conduct - the referee didn’t seem to get any valuable assistance.
I think you miss the art of refereeing, your pre-match research gives you a guide on you mindset of managing or an early card concept even at grass roots it is essential preparation. Man managing two footballing sides eg Sunday ManC/Liverpool, I would hope all referees would set a different approach with any Athletico Madrid match, give them an inch…..
Foden consciously and deliberately rolled himself back onto the pitch to ensure the game couldn't be restarted without him. As with our discussion about Pep's tactical fouls - I don't like it, but that doesn't mean it's not the smart thing to do under current laws. It's also wildly hypocritical for Atleti players to get wound up about it!
There you go again. "Pep's tactical fouls", perpetuating a myth.
Why not "ensure the game couldn't be restarted without him"? Seriously - you expect a player who's just been subject to VC to stay off the pitch, rather than risk the referee - who'd missed a YC on him for an earlier assault - "not seeing" the VC and allowing play to restart while he's still getting treatment?
I hate playacting by any team, but I'm making an exception in this case. Was he playacting when flattened by Felipe earlier? Actually, I'd call it "s...housery" and it looks like City decided to outs...house the s...housers in chief!
Oh, and if referees don't punish YC fouls with YCs unless players roll around, they will roll around. Foden's a quick learner and he's already learnt this season in the EPL that trying to stay on your feet when you've been fouled in the PA doesn't get you anything other than praise for honesty.
Wow. Seriously, this is a wild overreaction.
You're the only person on this forum who's objected to any reference to Pep training in tactical fouls - again, this is a referee forum, it's well-established and your insistence on denying that reality is taking away from any possibility of you being objectively involved in refereeing discussions. All you do whenever you post on any City thread is derail it and drag us away from the reality of what actually happened with these kind of massive overreaction posts - City using tactical fouls well is established fact and it is going to come up when discussing how referees should handle them.
It wasn't VC, so even the very basis of your clearly incorrect conspiracy theory that the referee was going to ignore it is wrong. Second yellow card was the correct decision and it was correctly issued after the melee. And as with our previous discussion in the LFC match, no one is disputing that the first yellow was missed - so there's really no need to try and act all persecuted over that. But these things happen and trying to make out like everyone on here is out to get you isn't going to change anything.
Similarly, no one is surprised you're willing to overlook the playacting in this case, it is however nice of you to spell it out so obviously for a change rather than trying to pretend it's anything other than your own bias. I'd also appreciate it if you stopped completely ignoring the section of my posts where I clearly say that tactical fouls and delaying play by rolling back onto the pitch are sensible things to coach. I said in our previous discussin that Thiago taking a City-esque yellow was smart, and I said literally directly above your post that Foden was smart to get back on the pitch here as well. I just would like to see changes in either law or culture that would eliminate them from the game generally - not because of the fact City are particularly good at them, but because it's boring and anti-football to watch.
Literally no idea what your last paragraph is about. I'd seriously recommend getting some fresh air and coming back to re-read that, because it's a) irrelevant to a European competition and b) really not the right tone for this forum.
Players are coached the dark arts of the game from an early age, I've seen it when I've been at pro academies and when I've refereed EPL and EFL U18 and U16 teams. I also had a long chat about it with an EFL manager after I refereed his then non-league team, he openly said that all other teams try to use gamesmanship so if he didn't tell his team to do the same he would be failing as a manager. Yes, Foden played the game in rolling back onto the pitch, but most pro footballers would have done the same. Even more so in this game as Athletico are the masters of it, so almost all managers will tell their players to fight fire with fire. It isn't right, but it is too ingrained in the game now to do anything about it. Foden is probably the least likely player to pin the blame on for this as there have been several occasions where he has tried to stay on his feet and not got a decision as a result, both for City and England.
This is why it is so hard for referees, as what is effectively cheating is ingrained into players before they have even reached puberty.
This is why it is so hard for referees, as what is effectively cheating is ingrained into players before they have even reached puberty.
deusex
RefChat Addict
Not going to mention the clear penalty against you that wasn't awarded?
Funny old thing!
RefIADad
RefChat Addict
Let's just call it what it is. The issue doesn't lie with the referees. The issue lies with the governing organizations. They are the ones telling the referees manage the game, keep it 11v11 as long as you possibly can, keep the entertainment value, etc. These referees, as has been mentioned in this thread, are at this level because they know what they are doing. They've undoubtedly had plenty of Sunday morning adult amateur men behaving badly matches where they've had to send off a bunch of people. They are being instructed to referee in this lenient, management style.
There is little doubt in my mind that if and when PGMOL, UEFA, CONCACAF, etc. tell their referees "forget about the spectacle, deal with the garbage as you need to and issue the cards needed", that you'd see more misconduct properly sanctioned.
There is little doubt in my mind that if and when PGMOL, UEFA, CONCACAF, etc. tell their referees "forget about the spectacle, deal with the garbage as you need to and issue the cards needed", that you'd see more misconduct properly sanctioned.