A&H

Club Assistant Referees - Expected and Offsides?

V

Viking

Well-Known Member
Assistance on UK countrywide views welcome. FA SCORY begins:

This document contains the Standard Code of Rules developed by The Football Association for Mini Soccer and Youth Football Competitions (the “Standard Code”). The Standard Code is mandatory for all Mini Soccer and Youth Football Competitions.

The Match Officials section 23 states;

(C) Where assistant referees are not appointed each Team shall provide a Club assistant referee. Failure to comply with this Rule will result in a fine (in accordance with the Fines Tariff) being imposed on the defaulting Club.

The FA Guidance to referees on talking to Club Asst Refs (CARS) includes detailed analysis of what to say to CARS re offside, i.e. they’re expecting CARS to flag an offside if criteria is met. The same guidance specifically states the ref will handle fouls and misconduct.

In watching a game north of the Humber between a club in East Riding FA and one from outside the area, the referee and coach tells me they don’t have CARS in these games and the ref instructs any CAR (presumably in other games) not to flag for offside. I was told it is in the rules. It is not, I checked.

I have only reffed in more southern counties where CARS are always present (as per SCORY) and offsides are flagged (as per FA guidance). In the UK do you expect CARS on every game and if so, do you instruct them to flag if they think it’s offside? Why are County FAs seemingly not following FA guidance re CARS?
 

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I always ask the CAR to flag for offside, I ask them to make sure player is active, not to change their mind and to not be offended if I overturn them (once had a CAR run on the pitch saying "you said flag for offside!!" when the ball had rolled out for a G/K and attacker never moved for it....)
Works for me :)
 
My understanding is that in England at least, I agree that CARs of some sort are usually required.

Expected duties vary (very loosely, they have more responsibility the further south you go) with ball in/out of play on the sideline being the minimum, and things like indicating direction of throw, ball in/out and direction on end lines and offside being things that are generally added. Like you, in the South I would normally expect the CAR to indicate all of the above, although obviously will overrule on occasion.
 
This all comes down to regions. Up my way, CAR's will signal ball has gone out for a throw-in and that's it. Same in other counties within my vicinity.

I didn't even realise it was a thing for CAR'S to signal offside in other counties until I had bene refereeing for 5 years or so.

No idea why some counties are different to others, though!
 
Think it is just historical. I qualified in Sheffield and refereed there and in Leeds, and CARs just did ball in and out for throw-ins, once I moved to London that changed and they can also indicate offsides. I don't even think it is documented anywhere.

It isn't just England. I watched a Troon FC game last year in the West of Scotland Football League, which I think is their 6th tier. I initially thought the referee was on his own, but eventually noticed two old boys in tracksuits with flags stood at the half way line so they were clearly doing ball out of play for throw-ins only.
 
When I started in Lincolnshire, the CAR gave offsides (and was really helpful).

Moving to York, and the instructions are ball in/out only (and that is too difficult for them 😫). If they were asked to give offsides, most would bother as they stand at the half way line and those that did would cheat.

I pull a hamstring in a game and said to the clubs, they are going to have help with offside or I would have to abandon the game. Both look so disinterested, they preferred the abandonment.
 
Many thanks for your replies. It appears FA Guidance is ignored/over-ruled by certain County FAs. Some referees go further and don't use CARs, contrary to FA SCORY rules. For me, CARs are always useful as a confirmation of my thoughts for ball in/out and offside, although there is some mileage in the view of why would referees even consider an offside decision by CARs when the CAR isn't qualified. On that basis though, why have them at all as if they're not qualified to give an opinion on offsides, they're also not qualified to give ball in/out. We're left with different practices in different parts of the country. Maybe some leadership from the FA is required to ensure all referee to the same laws/rules.
 
Viking said:
Many thanks for your replies. It appears FA Guidance is ignored/over-ruled by certain County FAs. Some referees go further and don't use CARs, contrary to FA SCORY rules. For me, CARs are always useful as a confirmation of my thoughts for ball in/out and offside, although there is some mileage in the view of why would referees even consider an offside decision by CARs when the CAR isn't qualified. On that basis though, why have them at all as if they're not qualified to give an opinion on offsides, they're also not qualified to give ball in/out. We're left with different practices in different parts of the country. Maybe some leadership from the FA is required to ensure all referee to the same laws/rules.
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I don't really get this qualified argument.

All your asking them to do is indicate whether a player is in an offside position when the ball was played. This does not need a qualification.

You are the qualified person and you then decide if the player commits an offence.
 
JamesL said:
I don't really get this qualified argument.

All your asking them to do is indicate whether a player is in an offside position when the ball was played. This does not need a qualification.

You are the qualified person and you then decide if the player commits an offence.
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To confirm, the qualified bit is whether they've passed a CAR workshop or is a qualified referee. Offsides are an absolute skill and I wouldn't expect anyone not trained to give them. However, as you say, you're the qualified person and it's up to you decide to go with the unqualified person's call or not.
 
JamesL said:
All your asking them to do is indicate whether a player is in an offside position when the ball was played. This does not need a qualification.

You are the qualified person and you then decide if the player commits an offence.
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Whilst I understand the logic of this approach, I prefer a world where CARs do their best to actually assess offside offences. Otherwise, there's the strong possibility of defenders seeing the flag and stopping ... whilst this is obviously 'on them' I'd still like to avoid it.

As such, my pre match offside brief to CARs (and the one I advise new refs to use when working as a Referee Tutor) is "Please try and stay level with the second last defender. If you see an attacker in an offside position when a team mate plays or touches the ball then wait and see if that attacker gets involved by playing or challenging for the ball or blocking a defender. If he does, put your flag up and I'll be on the look out for it! Any questions?"

I'm aware that this doesn't cover all the nuances of Law 11 but it covers 95+% of all decisions in a hopefully clear and succinct way :)
 
In the London area most adult leagues do not allow CARs. Most youth leagues insist on them.

Most CARs are football fan parents and know, or at least think they know, when a player is in an offside position, but can be hazy on when an offence has occurred. I prefer the CARs to give offsides, they're normally much better positioned than me.
 
Viking said:
To confirm, the qualified bit is whether they've passed a CAR workshop or is a qualified referee. Offsides are an absolute skill and I wouldn't expect anyone not trained to give them. However, as you say, you're the qualified person and it's up to you decide to go with the unqualified person's call or not.
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A CAR workshop, does such a thing even exist? I've certainly never heard of them.
 
Trip said:
In the London area most adult leagues do not allow CARs. Most youth leagues insist on them.

Most CARs are football fan parents and know, or at least think they know, when a player is in an offside position, but can be hazy on when an offence has occurred. I prefer the CARs to give offsides, they're normally much better positioned than me.
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Not so sure about that. I know the two "old boys" Saturday leagues don't, but I can think of many other London based leagues that do require CARs.
 
As a parent CAR I once got so much abuse from opposing parents for giving a tight offside against their forward that I called the ref over, gave him the flag and said he could ask someone else to do it. Some overweight idiot stood right behind me calling me a f******* cheat and then other parents questioning every decision 'Is he offside now mate?' 'Is that offside?' etc etc

Makes me wonder why anyone would volunteer tbh.
 
george.g said:
Hampshire FA won an award for them this year. My view: why not just run a referees course?
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The new referee course involves LOTG online (5 modules) plus a couple of days of classroom/practical, plus the need to referee 5 qualifying games, and costs around £145 (varies by CFA). A big commitment for a potential CAR.
The CFA workshops for CAR's cover "when is the ball out of play?", offside offences, CAR positioning and flagging techniques, covered in one evening session free of charge. We issue an attendance certificate at the end of the evening.
The sessions are valuable, and aimed at the correct level of learning for CAR's who will be asked to look for out of play and offside.
 
RustyRef said:
Not so sure about that. I know the two "old boys" Saturday leagues don't, but I can think of many other London based leagues that do require CARs.
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Was going to say the same thing. The old boys leagues have a rule against having CARs at all. All other London leagues I’ve refereed on have them.
 
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