Leeds v Man Utd
- Thread starter ladbroke8745
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one
RefChat Addict
This really is a lesson to learn from. He clearly had a plan in terms of being physical and physical intimidations. Basically sending the message to his opponents from the start, if you have the ball and I am coming at you, you better get out of the way or you are going to get hurt. He is not the first one to do this and this is not the only game it happens in. It needs to be detected early and dealt with usually by stepped approach. If he finds himself sent off he has only himself to blame as he has been warned by word and through a caution.
Anubis
RefChat Addict
Would need to see the other three, timings etc.
Based on the clip though, and making it relevant to public parks, the issuing of the yc is shabby here. First, all and sundry, player included, know its a yc offence, so sticking a yc into the air as the culprit runs away, is just show.
What would happen ideally is a referee uses this chance to slow things down, exert control, and not merely admin. Intense hostile fixture, player at risk of losing it. Dont simply throw a card in the air, call the player in. Be proactive. " look, its getting heated out here, thats your fourth foul, its bad one, yellow card, please be extra careful for the remainder of the game". Manage the situation.
Ok, am fully aware of the different caution techniques from epl to pub league but here we see a fifa listed official totally disregarding the basic teachings of issuing a sanction. Tierny simply throws a yc into the air, the playeri is running away, back to him, now some 15 yards away, regardless of the player well aware of his fate. This is not even close to how we issue a card.
Hypothetically, the referee could be holding a red here. Chaos.
The referees nervousness continues at the third tackle in the clip, he simply throws a card into the general direction of some players, then clearly realises he is all over the place, and tries to remedy his flustered mentality by now pointing at the intended target. This again, is not how we issue a sanction, holding up a card mid melee into a group of players, like Moses, expecting the red sea to part.
Once more, whilst appreciating when you walk on water you dont need to adhere to basics because you know best ( !) , the procedure is, stop game, isolate offender ( clearly identify etc), show card. ( am skipping the take name number part here for purposes of the level of game in question),.
All the referee does at the third tackle is fire a yc into the sky,despite the actual melee not being finished.
anyone unaware of the clip, seeing the attatched pic for the first time, will have no idea which player is actually getting the card! Shambolic and a negation of the basics.
Attachments
Are you though? Because the rest of your post would appear to indicate that you're not.
Glad to see I'm not the only ref who struggles to identify persistent offenders!
Anubis
RefChat Addict
Are you though? Because the rest of your post would appear to indicate that you're not.
Glad to see I'm not the only ref who struggles to identify persistent offenders!
Unaware of the game barring the clips ahown. So can only really make reference to the three shown. On those three, am good with no card, card, no card. If someone is issuing a yc for the first foul, understandable.
The third is simply not a card by any stretch of the imagination.
Sorry, unclear on my part. The first part was about you saying you're aware of cautioning technique being different in the PL than it is at grassroots.
The second part was completely separate, pointing out that I'm glad to see PL refs also struggle to identify PI sometimes!
Anubis
RefChat Addict
the caution technique on display was poor managment on both occasions. Whilst throwing a card in the air and hoping for the best is not punishable by burning at the stake in the epl, had the referee taken time to slow down the McTomiany yellow, maybe put across a message, look, heated game, one foul tol many, tread careful, then, we are being proactive. Sinply throwing that card into the air is lazy.
On the second incident, as hopefully illustrated, who is even getting the card? Thrown up nervously, more in hope than anything decisive
Feels like a probably missed caution for the first of those 3, second was a correct caution and 3rd was just the opponent trying to cause a fuss and get him the 2nd YC.
No real issue with the caution technique for the McT yellow - he's a professional footballer, he knows it's a yellow, he knows what happens if he gets another. Dragging him in for a chat is only going to wind him up and probably the opponents as well as they want to get on with the game, this is perfectly normal in the PL. Waving the other yellow at the melee is problematic though, particularly when there's a player in there who's already on a yellow and has just committed a foul - you need to be very specific that you're not carding him if that's the case.
No real issue with the caution technique for the McT yellow - he's a professional footballer, he knows it's a yellow, he knows what happens if he gets another. Dragging him in for a chat is only going to wind him up and probably the opponents as well as they want to get on with the game, this is perfectly normal in the PL. Waving the other yellow at the melee is problematic though, particularly when there's a player in there who's already on a yellow and has just committed a foul - you need to be very specific that you're not carding him if that's the case.
EPL and EFL referees are told not to slow the game down for cautions as that isn't what the paying public want to see. When was the last time you saw a SG1 referee follow the correct procedure, i.e. isolate player, take name, warn as to future conduct and show card? It simply doesn't happen, and for matter I can't really remember seeing it in UEFA or FIFA games either.
Equally I would hope that paying spectators don't want to see simulation, blatant diving, players rolling around pretending to be injured, and general cheating, but unfortunately that is what almost all of the players do these days.
Paul Tierney looked really uncomfortable in this game as he was trying to take account of the awful conditions and it took him well outside of his comfort zone, there were challenges that he 100% would have cautioned for in the first half but he tried to manage. He has been panned on fans sites for being weak and losing control of the game, yet in reality had he given early cautions that supporters were demanding he'd have ended up with 15+ cautions (he finished with 9) and probably some off. The top level of the game is becoming un-refereeable (think I have just made that word up) because of the behaviour of the players. If I was him next time I'd go in to a game in those conditions and take zero account of the conditions, caution 15 and send off 5, whilst sticking two fingers up to those moaning at him from the previous game. That's probably why I never made it beyond L3 though ...
Tbf it's how i approach these games. If I see conditions like this (let's face it they were on the very edge of playable at times) I tell 'Em.Equally I would hope that paying spectators don't want to see simulation, blatant diving, players rolling around pretending to be injured, and general cheating, but unfortunately that is what almost all of the players do these days.
Paul Tierney looked really uncomfortable in this game as he was trying to take account of the awful conditions and it took him well outside of his comfort zone, there were challenges that he 100% would have cautioned for in the first half but he tried to manage. He has been panned on fans sites for being weak and losing control of the game, yet in reality had he given early cautions that supporters were demanding he'd have ended up with 15+ cautions (he finished with 9) and probably some off. The top level of the game is becoming un-refereeable (think I have just made that word up) because of the behaviour of the players. If I was him next time I'd go in to a game in those conditions and take zero account of the conditions, caution 15 and send off 5, whilst sticking two fingers up to those moaning at him from the previous game. That's probably why I never made it beyond L3 though ...
The conditions are you to consider not me. Its probs why I am still level 4 too
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
Nothing in the LOTG requires any of those steps. It is correct procedure for most on this board because that is what the powers that be dictate in England. I don't think it is the "correct procedure" for EPL or EFL. And no surprise--what would be the point of asking the player for his name??
(Nor it is something that is expected as the standard in the U.S. I will explain a card when it isn't obvious to the miscreant (but most are) or when I think it will aid game control. We don't take names, but rely on numbers.)
Anubis
RefChat Addict
Am not concerned about the procedure side, my point is more this game was getting out of control, here the referee was presented with a chance to put the brakes on, slow it down, use this caution to send out his message.
By simply throwing a card in the air, he had reduced himself from referee to merely admin.
that aside, even a ueta observor would be looking for greater clarity as to who was getting the card at McTs third foul.
from the brief snippets I have seen, the referee looked on edge throughout
Yes, I know that. But there is a stark cut off in England. Up to and including level 2B (National League North / South) you are absolutely, 100% banned from flashing cards unless it is to immediately defuse a very serious situation. Once you get to 2A (National League Premier) you are expected to keep the game flowing by flashing cards and not isolating players or slowing the game down. An SG1 EPL referee doesn't really even have it in his armoury to slow the game down at a caution as (a) he will be criticised for it by the bosses and (b) he almost certainly won't even have a notebook on him to use in order to slow the game down.
ladbroke8745
Censorship
Watching the game live, and even a quick glance at the reel at top, it looked like initially he blew his whistle and went to go to his pocket.
It does look like, if he did go to pocket, he changed his mind which is his right. But has he changed it based on knowing its a red now? This was during the stage of the game he was throwing cards left right and centre.
Anubis
RefChat Addict
It was a hostile powderkeg, and probably an unsettling referee experience
He did not look at ease though.