Ref4Me

Let it flow, but blow for everything...

ladbroke8745

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
So my U16 game today...
<playing advantage where player has poor shot> "come on ref, that's a foul" said manager of away side.
<pulls up for encroachment from wall in free kick> "come on ref, let the game flow". Said same manager.

So, do you want me to let it flow or blow for offences? Is what I'm thinking.

Calls players over for trips and give them a public bollocking. After 4th semi bad challenge, 3 different players, calls captain over and said I will start carding for these. They do stop. So obviously that chat worked.
10 minutes later, a little shoving match following a foul. Call captains from both clubs in and, loudly said for all to hear too, said "it's a friendly, I don't really want to card but if we don't control your players from now on, I will".
Into 2nd half, 10 minutes in, another flash point. Defender who was fouled throws ball at attacker, not aggressively but enough to get a card put. Whilst I'm cautioning him, the two captains square up to each, foreheads together and one pushes the other.
Caution both for AA.

Away manager (receiving end of 2 yellows in that) shouts I've lost control thats why I'm cautioning.

Think you'll find, I had full control. I warned. I acted.
Away side wanted to let game flow, but also wanted a foul every 5 seconds and it rubbed off on to the players who claimed for everything. Can't have it both ways.

Captain of home side sent off with seconds to go. Gave free kick against him. He then fist pumps the floor with both hands, and tells me to "**** off". Could've gone straight red, but went with dissent as he too was pulled down but that was result of his foul first so he probably felt annoyed. But you don't act and shout like that. Ended up with 4 yellows, and a double yellow. The 4 yellows to Away, double yellow to home.

Turns out, the caption of away side cautioned for his part in the shoving match in 2nd half is the managers son. Go figure.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Sounds like you did what you had to do with the players.

Did the manger get warned, cautioned...? Something to think about. Sometimes shutting up the bench makes it a lot easier in the middle.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
So my U16 game today...
<playing advantage where player has poor shot> "come on ref, that's a foul" said manager of away side.
<pulls up for encroachment from wall in free kick> "come on ref, let the game flow". Said same manager.
Had something similar myself yesterday. 1st half, blew for a foul in defensive 3rd. Defender asks can we not have advantage ref.
2nd half, play poor advantage in defensive 3rd, posession turns over, ball out of play for corner. Goal conceded.
Made a point of saying to the lad this is why we dont normally give u advantage so deep on your own half.

2 points, I don't think I would have played the advantage in a competitive match. I definitely wouldn't have told the lad about the advantage.
But the game was basically a training match between 2 teams wanting to play ball AND the team were young and newly promoted to step 6 from this season so it was an opportunity to educate a little and was well received. Also helped it was 7-3 at the time so was never going to affect the result, if anyone was bothered about it.
 

ladbroke8745

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Sounds like you did what you had to do with the players.

Did the manger get warned, cautioned...? Something to think about. Sometimes shutting up the bench makes it a lot easier in the middle.
He asked to speak with me, but I said it can wait until the end of the game. I am not stopping the game so that he can give me his version of events, whilst he is irate. By the end of the game, he was calm and didn't want to speak.
I didn't warn him, but I did kind of ignore his remarks.
 

ladbroke8745

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Forgot to add actually, before the game, I went to each coach and reminded them of all jewellery needing to be removed, and visually spotted to of away team players having earrings in one ear. I asked them both to remove and both players went to a woman, who I now know as the coaches partner/wife, and ask for tape. I said, no they have to be removed.
10 minutes later, I was walking around the pitch, watching the warm ups, when I noticed one of the players had taped his earring up. I said that I told him he must remove it. He said he can't because he only had it done yesterday. I said I can't help that. Said that he needs to remove it or not play. Tried to bring coach into this and he said, I am not dealing with you right now, I am warming my players up (his warm up was to have 3 lines of players with him on edge of the area, and a player at the edge of the area of each of the other two lines, receiving a pass, laying off and them shooting. If two players can do that for 2 of the lines, then a third can do it whilst I talk with him about this issue).
Eventually he comes over, and he says he is not allowed to remove it as it was done yesterday. I said that is what the player said, but under Law 4 he must remove it. He said others have allowed it. I then told him that I am not arguing about it. Law 4 states that all jewellery must be removed and can not be taped up. I then said that if he only had it done yesterday then there was no other opportunities for other referees to have allowed it. I then walked away, saying if he doesn't remove it, he is not playing.

Come kick off, I glanced at him to see if it was removed and could see it was.
Was kind of hoping he would put it back in or something to be able to caution him.
Sounds silly on my part, but by this point I had had enough of the away manager, then his antics in the game...

Maybe I should have disciplined him during the game now (the manager). To me, thinking about it now, he was a total nutjob and can imagine why referees on this league don't stay long. The refsec has already said to me that I am one of the refs they go to because, apparently, cards were not issued that much to certain clubs, of all ages, and that trouble was rife.
 

Viking

Q-1994, Re-qualified 2019 Worcestershire UK
Level 7 Referee
I treat friendlies as I would a competitive match these days. I tried managing with no cards but what I've noticed is the idiots will still be idiots, only more so if you don't card them. The thing that tipped it over the edge for me was a coach who argued over my lenient suggestion that he sub off a player for the last 5 mins or play with 10 men as the player was otherwise getting a RC for abusive words towards me. I saw a ref try to manage a friendly without cards after the last lockdown but it ended badly. Never again for me.
 

ladbroke8745

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
This has me a bit worried.
I get why that may worry you, I meant I don't focus too much on comments on the sideline unless I really have to.
Like with language and frustration on the pitch, I have a tolerance level. It's not high enough that it I ignore it he is next weeks problem, more I that accept not everyone has the same opinion on what we believe are free kicks etc.
 

ladbroke8745

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
I treat friendlies as I would a competitive match these days. I tried managing with no cards but what I've noticed is the idiots will still be idiots, only more so if you don't card them. The thing that tipped it over the edge for me was a coach who argued over my lenient suggestion that he sub off a player for the last 5 mins or play with 10 men as the player was otherwise getting a RC for abusive words towards me. I saw a ref try to manage a friendly without cards after the last lockdown but it ended badly. Never again for me.
I tried the lenient part in the game. Knew both teams were good and would make it a competitive game, despite it being a friendly.
I then made it known publicly on totting up of fouls and that cards will start appearing. Then acted when I thought the game started veering away from what I thought was acceptable.
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Yeah, I'm with one on this. If a team is causing trouble, there is usually one key person at the centre of it and as referees, we're all quite experienced at identifying it and using the stepped approach when it's a player. I'm sure we've all got examples in our heads of games that were getting a little heated and then we managed to either get one player to calm down or sent them off and everyone else relaxed as a result.

From your description, in this game, that troublemaker was on the side of the pitch rather than in the middle. And I know it can be tempting to just try and block that out - but his players won't be. They'll be listening and so when the coach says you're being unfair or you've lost control, suddenly you've got 11 players who think that and will start to react accordingly. And by ignoring him, you're tacitly endorsing what he's saying and encouraging the players to believe that even more. From your description, I think you might have found that a yellow card to the coach early on could easily have saved you a few more on the pitch later.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
It's just like any other game. You ref what in front of you.
My go to line is play it like a friendly and I'll ref it like one, play it competitively and I'll ref it as normal.
Ive then not tied myself to being a no card ref, but similarly if anyone complains it's a friendly I remind them about what I said.
In friendly I mentioned above it was played in exceent spirits and there was no need for a card. Players were warned when required and were left in no doubt if I needed to then I would card.
I would say I was most lenient on persistent, 1 or 2 players were probably close and in a league game probably would have copped a card. But no one was asking for it and it wouldn't have fit the temp of the game
 

ladbroke8745

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Yeah, I'm with one on this. If a team is causing trouble, there is usually one key person at the centre of it and as referees, we're all quite experienced at identifying it and using the stepped approach when it's a player. I'm sure we've all got examples in our heads of games that were getting a little heated and then we managed to either get one player to calm down or sent them off and everyone else relaxed as a result.

From your description, in this game, that troublemaker was on the side of the pitch rather than in the middle. And I know it can be tempting to just try and block that out - but his players won't be. They'll be listening and so when the coach says you're being unfair or you've lost control, suddenly you've got 11 players who think that and will start to react accordingly. And by ignoring him, you're tacitly endorsing what he's saying and encouraging the players to believe that even more. From your description, I think you might have found that a yellow card to the coach early on could easily have saved you a few more on the pitch later.
That's a very fair assessment and the idea used in your second paragraph is one I will use in future.
Despite being a ref for over 20 years, and I do have many examples i can give, never thought of managers comments influencing players.
 

Gamespoiler

Active Member
Level 7 Referee
It can be easy to assume issuing cards is a negative in a friendly and that you're a better referee if you get through the game without using cards but I know as a former player and coach, I always thought the referee was stronger when he was issuing cards whether or not it was a friendly. We can get too focused on cards at times that we're ruining things by showing them, if the players didn't do what they did, we wouldn't have to show them. And friendly or not, if a player told me to F off, he'd be off straight red.
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
Cards is cards is cards.
I did a game tonight that should have had NARs but we were short so I was alone. I told the captains before that I will likely have a low tolerance for BS. When the the late hits, blatant holding and needless cynical fouls came in the second half, they all went in the book. One player mentioned I don't have to card for everything - and on another day I might look for excuses why not to card. But my god, cards are sooooo effective!

(And I did have a double yellow, really blatant, no arguments. And I did show understanding and not second yellow for the first time a player kicked the ball away.)

Cards. Use them.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Even better if you can use sin bin.

The trick is finding the right balance for the right game.
 

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Cards is cards is cards.
I did a game tonight that should have had NARs but we were short so I was alone. I told the captains before that I will likely have a low tolerance for BS. When the the late hits, blatant holding and needless cynical fouls came in the second half, they all went in the book. One player mentioned I don't have to card for everything - and on another day I might look for excuses why not to card. But my god, cards are sooooo effective!

(And I did have a double yellow, really blatant, no arguments. And I did show understanding and not second yellow for the first time a player kicked the ball away.)

Cards. Use them.
Agree but waving a yellow card at a manager is never going to turn him into a rationale human being - which I bet he/she is, AWAY from a football field! :p
 

ladbroke8745

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
I have never known u16 captains to have any influence on the behaviour of the team mates
But my u14 the other week they spoke with their players and they done well... it depends on who they are... most cases when they're not any good it's because it's the managers son.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
I'd say it's because of the manager full stop. Any decent manager of a young team coaches them in every aspect of the game. How to be a leader is one of the main ones.
 
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