Sin Bin reporting

[Emad]

So I was Refereeing a cup game over the Weekend & after repeated warnings had to Sin Bin a player, no other cautions or incidents in the match.
At the end of the match, the captain of the team enquired if I was going to report the Sin Bin? I told him yes I would (&have now done so) to which he politely unapproved of.

That got me to thinking, do other referees report cautions/sin bins all the time? Or do some let it go occasionally?
Also wondering if I would get marked down as result of reporting ?

 

[es1]

some certainly dont, i suspect the majority of users of this forum will report 100% of the time though!

do it because it's the right thing to do, don't worry about what impact it may have on club marks

 

[OnlyUseMeWhistle]

So I was Refereeing a cup game over the Weekend & after repeated warnings had to Sin Bin a player, no other cautions or incidents in the match.
At the end of the match, the captain of the team enquired if I was going to report the Sin Bin? I told him yes I would (&have now done so) to which he politely unapproved of.

That got me to thinking, do other referees report cautions/sin bins all the time? Or do some let it go occasionally?
Also wondering if I would get marked down as result of reporting ?

Report it, not doing so risks your neck with the County FA. Players and coaches try it on because a few refs don’t report them.

 

[bester]

They don't get fined, yet, for sin-bins anyway. That's why they're asking.

 

[FirsFox40]

Always report.

Not only are you doing your job (for which you have been paid), you’re protecting yourself, you’re not doing a disservice to their opponents, as well as next week’s and their ref.

The reputation or rumour that you don’t report misconduct is a very real tough one to lose, and you’ll end up last in most people’s thoughts when it comes to those plum appointments at the business end of the season.

 

[GraemeS]

You also have the option of reporting that you were approached and asked not to submit cards. I usually don't bother if people just asked the question, but if he responded aggressively or persistently, it can be worth adding an additional charge.

 

[The Gump]

Reffing U12s or U11s games, I've only ever issued a couple of yellows and haven't put them through the system - not because I never would, be because the specific nature of the two games and offences (games had been well coached, no issues with dissent whatsover, both yellows for stopping a promising attack but not reckless, SFP, VC etc, both incidents towards the end of very one sided games). The cards were warranted under law but issued more as learning points rather than wanting mum and dad fined. If it was red I would for obvious reasons.

11 a side upwards (U13s and up) I take a different view and put everything through.

 

[CaptainsPlease]

Always report. It's a failure of duty to not report and causes problems for other refs.
An understanding smile and 'I have to report them it's my job' as a response has never caused me any problems. If we all did that then they'd not bother asking.
For sin bins though it can also help to explain that there is no fine for them (currently).

 

[JamesL]

It's worth remembering that although a temporary dismissal does not carry a fine, it still counts towards the number of cautions a player has received and therefore if/when they serve a ban for receiving X amount of cautions.

The player might have been asking not to report it as they may have already been sin binned twice, delayed the restart and committed a reckless foul tackle and this is the caution that gets him to 5.

It's really important for the FAs to be able to judge of dissent is actually reducing. If we all stop reporting dissent cautions, then as far as the FA know dissent no longer exists in the game and temporary dismissals are a rip roaring success.

Also, it is data that can help a disciplinary panel/commission decide on a punishment when taking into account a teams/clubs behaviour.

Finally, it is your job, as laid out in law, as a referee to report misconduct. Failure to so will make you liable to face a disciplinary charge, probably suspension, and it you are on promotion pathway potentially your whole promotion. It really is not worth the personal risk it carries let alone the moral and regulatory obligation we are under.

 

[The Gump]

Finally, it is your job, as laid out in law, as a referee to report misconduct. Failure to so will make you liable to face a disciplinary charge, probably suspension, and it you are on promotion pathway potentially your whole promotion. It really is not worth the personal risk it carries let alone the moral and regulatory obligation we are under.

Genuine question - would you take the same view at U11s and U12s, or would you advocate, or at least tolerate, some discretion?

 

[JamesL]

Genuine question - would you take the same view at U11s and U12s, or would you advocate, or at least tolerate, some discretion?

If you show the cards then you are duty bound to report it, in my opinion.
When I did youth football, whilst cards were a lot less likely, they did happen, and I reported every single one.

 

[The Gump]

If you show the cards then you are duty bound to report it, in my opinion.
When I did youth football, whilst cards were a lot less likely, they did happen, and I reported every single one.

That's fair enough James. I see it slightly differently at that age group but don't have a problem with others who take a different view.

That said, I've coached, watched or reffed U11s/U12s for four years and have literally seen four yellow cards in all that time, and I issued two of them! Rightly or wrongly, there's an expectation they won't even be used, let alone reported.

 

[JamesL]

That's fair enough James. I see it slightly differently at that age group but don't have a problem with others who take a different view.

That said, I've coached, watched or reffed U11s/U12s for four years and have literally seen four yellow cards in all that time, and I issued two of them! Rightly or wrongly, there's an expectation they won't even be used, let alone reported.

All I am saying is you are taking a risk. If the club rings up the discipline department asking when they should expect to receive the admin, and the dept don't have your misconduct, you've got a big problem.

My view is if you are only going to do half the job, then why do it at all?

You might think you are helping, but you are making next week's ref, who does the job to the full requirement harder.

(Not personal, I may use "you", but I am doing that generically).

 

[The Gump]

All I am saying is you are taking a risk. If the club rings up the discipline department asking when they should expect to receive the admin, and the dept don't have your misconduct, you've got a big problem.

My view is if you are only going to do half the job, then why do it at all?

You might think you are helping, but you are making next week's ref, who does the job to the full requirement harder.

(Not personal, I may use "you", but I am doing that generically).

Both cases I explained to the coaches (both of whom I know) that I wouldn't put them through.

Whilst I stand by not putting them through at that age group, I accept the rationale that by not doing so I've potentially created a situation whereby another ref (particularly a young ref) might be put under pressure not to put one through.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

Genuine question - would you take the same view at U11s and U12s, or would you advocate, or at least tolerate, some discretion?

Report it. Why would you not do so?
It gives the local FA/League a steer on which clubs are misbehaving, it reduces the pressure on next week's referee, and it's part of the referee's role.
The laws are there to be applied, and 11/12-year-old players need to learn that actions have consequences.

 

[RustyRef]

That's fair enough James. I see it slightly differently at that age group but don't have a problem with others who take a different view.

That said, I've coached, watched or reffed U11s/U12s for four years and have literally seen four yellow cards in all that time, and I issued two of them! Rightly or wrongly, there's an expectation they won't even be used, let alone reported.

If you have the courage to issue the cards you must have the courage to report them. You do realise that if your CFA catch you doing this you will be suspended, they really don't like this and will go after you.

 

[markref]

If you have the courage to issue the cards you must have the courage to report them. You do realise that if your CFA catch you doing this you will be suspended, they really don't like this and will go after you.

Just to reinforce this point, a few years ago one of my Sunday leagues had several referees suspended for this. Two of them were level 4 and one was a level 3. They thought it was enough the cards were shown and didn’t bother putting them in because it was only Sunday league. It really didn’t go down well with the FA!

 

[The Gump]

It's not a lack of courage whatsoever.

Hadn't realised that this had posted as I'd decided to sleep on this overnight.

What I would have said it is it wasn't that I was lacking the courage to report it. The reality is both matches were over (less than 10 mins left, scorelines of around 10-0). I could have done what virtually always happens and simply have a talk with the player but I felt it would be a better learning point for the player to speak to them, explain what happened and issue a caution.

Maybe that's too much of the coach in me coming out, as I guarantee you that at least 99% of the time no card would have been issued (I must have watched around 100 U11s/U12s matches as a coach or parent, and as per above have seen two yellows.

I appreciate that there are different views of the use of cards at this age group, ranging from LOTG are LOTG and they should be applied regardless of age, to sometimes to pretty much never (the first two of those views being held by different trainers when completing my course).

I lean towards the second of those and don't apologise for it, but thanks to the comments on here I certainly won't be issuing warranted yellow cards at this age group and not putting them through, much as I think the fines at this age group should either be lower than adult football or not exist at all.

One last question, which I should know the answer to but don't - does the fine go to the club or the player (in this case their parent/guardian)? If it goes to the club, is it was the club's discretion to pass it on to the player?

 

[lincs22]

One last question, which I should know the answer to but don't - does the fine go to the club or the player (in this case their parent/guardian)? If it goes to the club, is it was the club's discretion to pass it on to the player?

It is always the club which gets the fine and is responsible for paying it. As failure to pay on time results in the club being suspended by the CFA.

Adult clubs will collect the fine from the player; junior clubs tend to have different rules.

 

[The Gump]

It is always the club which gets the fine and is responsible for paying it. As failure to pay on time results in the club being suspended by the CFA.

Adult clubs will collect the fine from the player; junior clubs tend to have different rules.

Thank you.