Southampton v Aston Villa

[JamesL]

I didn't, as I was specifically answering the question around whether it needs to be a deliberate play.

For the offences listed above, the arm certainly wasn't above the shoulder, so it just has to be decided whether his arm made him unnaturally bigger. I wouldn't say a penalty was wrong, but it is very subjective as to whether his arm should have been there or not.

But it was extended beyond the shoulder so a deliberate play would be okay, which it wasn't for me. And he definitely made his body unnaturally bigger for me.
It just highlight what a mess the hand ballaw has been made

 

[santa sangria]

Anyone want a red card too?

Offside restart.

Hand to ball should surely be the main consideration with this contradictory law.

 

[GraemeS]

As said earlier.....some strange decision make in this game, the handball is as clear a handball as I've seen all season. The deflection off the knee is irrelevant, the hand is away from the body and moves towards the ball. I just cant see how its not given and the deflection being the reasoning is wrong.

The offside call is a another I just cant agree with either. I've been called out before after claiming the offside calls made by VAR can be manipulated by the the official's sat in a room deciding where the lines are being drawn, someone claimed offsides are black and white, after seeing that tonight I totally disagree. And funnily enough it was the same VAR Ref tonight who called 'offside' for Bamfords goal at Palace for Leeds for his arm being out in front.

The top Refs are actually making things harder for us at grassroots level. They appear to have their own interpretation and are changing things without making explanations and rulings public.

The only thing we need to consider with the offside is that it was given as offside by the AR. So all the "margin of error" and "umpires call" suggstions would have made zero difference to this - VAR would have only confirmed the on-field offside call in a system where those margins were in place.

 

[RustyRef]

Side note, can anyone explain what the indirect free kick restart is for. I'm guessing offside? But I couldn't really see an offside offence

After the potential handling, Danny Ings is in an offside position and challenges for the ball. So I'd assume that was why the restart was IDFK as opposed to a corner.

 

[bloovee]

No ...

it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:

• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)

Nothing about a deliberate play. .....

The law is an ambiguous mess.



Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:

• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)

But one of the "above offences" is

"If a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball".

Therefore, if you think Cash deliberately handled the ball, it's an offence - even if it came off his own body.

Otherwise a player could kick the ball up in the air then punch it away.

(What thought went into dropping "usually" from "not usually an offence"?)

And why didn't MotD show the handball shout in the City v Sheff U game? If only for comparison.

 

[onthebrink]

No ...

it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:

• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)

Nothing about a deliberate play. If the arm was above the shoulder then it would still be a penalty, but the only remaining question here is was the arm in an unexpected position, if yes it would override the condition I have posted above.

I know it doesn't explicitly say deliberate play in the LOTG but I thought it had since been clarified that this is what it meant?

An example is from MLS (2.30 in this video) - the referee says it's handball if it's a block but not if it's a deliberate play (and eventually decides there was a clear kicking motion so reverses his decision to give a penalty.)

 

[bloovee]

I'm not sure that helps this case. The ball there is going up in the air in a direction the player didn't really intend and the position of the arm seemed totally accidental. In the Southampton the defender had his arm out and the deflection off his body looked incidental to that action.

The MLS explanations seem helpful - I'd love to know how those guys would view the recent decisions by PGMOL.