A&H

Wolves v Citee

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Big Cat said:
It the literal sense of the word, this HB was not deliberate as I'm confident the player did not intend it to happen. However, IFAB's interpretation of deliberate is only loosely based on what the player is thinking as the Law does not expect us to read minds. The term deliberate is therefore clarified with two clauses in the book (we disagree on both of these, because i think they both justify HB and you don't). I've learnt from the likes of @cwyeary et al that FIFA want these types of incidents given as HB. We've seen Champions League referees and latterly World Cup officials giving very soft HBs at every opportunity. The defender sliding in with a block being a perfect example of this. For me, an attacker desperately diving in an uncontrolled manner in an attempt to score is equivalent to the defender going to ground
James, don't get me wrong, I have a good deal of respect for your posts and even if we don't end up in agreement, I'll still be influenced by your opinion
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All about opinions and interpretations my friend.

At the end of the day it would be nice to have a set of laws that resulted in uniform decisions from refs, but we dont, and thats football.

Fwiw I am not saying you are wrong. Its just my opinion at the end of the day and how I interpret the law. I understand why you would penalise handball, amd personally I agree that it should be. But in my mind and the way I interpret the law I am struggling to find basis for it.
 
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Mintyref said:
What utter nonsense is posted about handball on here, not deliberate even within the so called guidance issued by the powers that be......if they are so intent on realigning our interpretation of handball the solution is simple, change the f%$÷×ng law!
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The nonsense stems from IFAB alone. I agree that if 'deliberate' is the wrong word, they should change the law. My feelings on FIFA/IFAB and the development of referees under the FA have always been clear (dismay!)
 
not handball for me, and not offside either
Silva, pk.

with both though, I can live with yes/no to them both. Opinion of the referee and all that......
 
Stop with the nonsense about this being handball.....

It’s very very simple.....it’s not a deliberate movement of hand to ball.....therefore it cannot be handball.

If anyone thinks this is handball.....you need to seriously stop and think about what you are saying.
 
Big Cat said:
There are positive aspects to your bigoted views; you clearly don't work for any of football's governing bodies, nor do you ascribe to their dreadful unofficial teaching dissemination (which we share in common). Your polarized views also get my attention, because of your experience and mentoring. I also think that a blinkered view of the world could assist with the art of refereeing. On balance however, your blunt approach leaves me learning more from others, even those with whom i encounter regular friction
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Blunt @Padfoot maybe, bigoted, don't think so. No blowing smoke up your ar5e and any up and coming colleague would do well following his advice.........
 
Mintyref said:
Blunt @Padfoot maybe, bigoted, don't think so. No blowing smoke up your ar5e and any up and coming colleague would do well following his advice.........
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Hmm, I actually completely disagree with this. Anyone who aspires to be an 'up and coming' referee should be very aware of the desires of IFAB and the FA. Whilst I often see a lot of sense in his opinions and appreciate the candour, I think the more 'maverick' take on the world is (somewhat regrettably) not a helpful one for referees who aspire to progress up the ladder
 
Mintyref said:
Blunt @Padfoot maybe, bigoted, don't think so. No blowing smoke up your ar5e and any up and coming colleague would do well following his advice.........
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I consider myself also to be blunt, but, my redeeming feature is i try to see and can appreciate other viewpoints

Can i throw this in the mix?

The centre half stoops to header the cross ball and "handles"

Pk?
 
Russell Jones said:
Hmm, I actually completely disagree with this. Anyone who aspires to be an 'up and coming' referee should be very aware of the desires of IFAB and the FA. Whilst I often see a lot of sense in his opinions and appreciate the candour, I think the more 'maverick' take on the world is (somewhat regrettably) not a helpful one for referees who aspire to progress up the ladder
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When i release my auto biography your welcome to a free signed copy..
 
Russell Jones said:
Hmm, I actually completely disagree with this. Anyone who aspires to be an 'up and coming' referee should be very aware of the desires of IFAB and the FA. Whilst I often see a lot of sense in his opinions and appreciate the candour, I think the more 'maverick' take on the world is (somewhat regrettably) not a helpful one for referees who aspire to progress up the ladder
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Maverick? I guess that puts quite a lot of us into that category.......a badge I'd be happy to wear. Perhaps if you want to reach the higher echelons you're correct, but for most of us they just don't really matter!
 
Ciley Myrus said:
I consider myself also to be blunt, but, my redeeming feature is i try to see and can appreciate other viewpoints

Can i throw this in the mix?

The centre half stoops to header the cross ball and "handles"

Pk?
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The penalty decision is an interesting debate. I'm sure from the World Cup (and UEFA downloads) that the governing bodies want this given, but i also know that they need to change the law and stop pissing about with ad-hoc vaguely directed media nonsense. I'm sure i could learn a good deal from @Padfoot , but not in the form of communication on this forum
 
Ciley Myrus said:
I consider myself also to be blunt, but, my redeeming feature is i try to see and can appreciate other viewpoints

Can i throw this in the mix?

The centre half stoops to header the cross ball and "handles"

Pk?
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Impossible to determine from your statement alone.
 
It’s very simple....apparently too simple for some to understand......his hand/arm is in that position as a direct result of his body shape in attempting to head the ball.....once the ball has missed his head, it hits his arm which is already there.

Consider.....he hasn’t moved his arm towards because the ball has missed his head......the amount of time he has to realise he has missed the header and move his arm out of the way (or into its path if you look at it that way).......
 
Ok, cross came in, centre forward "handled". Was deemed accidentable, goal
Ok, cross comes in, centre half "handles". What we saying?

Leave aside what ref AR saw..we are talking learning points for our own game and the simple matter of....is this handball?
 
By the definition in lotg, it cant be handball

By what we think we need to do based on expectations, i can accept againgst my will handball
 
We are going off topic on what is a subjective call

We can only say what we see and relate it to our games

I would not be impressed to see it chalked off for handball, but I would listen to the reasoning
Personally am giving it,(the goal). but then again am arrogant so sod the consequences

75/25 goal, imo.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
We are going off topic on what is a subjective call

We can only say what we see and relate it to our games

I would not be impressed to see it chalked off for handball, but I would listen to the reasoning
Personally am giving it, but then again am arrogant so sod the consequences

75/25 goal, imo.
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Yes, we are off topic
IFAB/FIFA want this given
Old skool refs do not
If i had never discovered this forum (and the FIFA/IFAB crap on-line) and had not watched the summer WC debacle, I'd still be in the old skool
It's a good night from moi :yawn:
 
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