A&H

5-4 first report

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Justylove said:
Nice one. Basically you're 9 marks ahead of the requirement with 3 observations left. That means even if you have one really poor game it won't kill you or leave you sweating.

I remember going into my final observation knowing that anything above a 55 would see me reach an average of 70 and it was really nice to referee it with the pressure off.
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Yeah it's a good start for sure. I'm just pleased that I've gone to a higher standard and not made a dogs dinner of it tbh
 
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RustyRef said:
73 is a very good mark and way above the average that I have seen. When you consider that getting standard expected in all 20 competencies will only get you a mark of 60, even getting to 70 can be a challenge so you should be pleased with 73.
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What might the average be for say... a level 4 Ref
I was AR to an excellent Ref (L4) at the weekend, who arguably didn't make any mistakes in an averagely challenging game. Almost certainly the best Ref I've assisted. He got 72.5. Very promising young chap. Might see him on the tele in a few years time (only 21 years old!)
 
Big Cat said:
What might the average be for say... a level 4 Ref
I was AR to an excellent Ref (L4) at the weekend, who arguably didn't make any mistakes in an averagely challenging game. Almost certainly the best Ref I've assisted. He got 72.5. Very promising young chap. Might see him on the tele in a few years time (only 21 years old!)
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Would be interesting to know. I wonder what the pass rate is for 5-4s and if that's changed post covid?

Got my 3rd observation of the season tomorrow. I would've had it earlier in the month had I not been on holiday. Its great that the observations are happening early where I am and that theres going to be no issues trying to get the 5 in.
 
Ben448844 said:
Would be interesting to know. I wonder what the pass rate is for 5-4s and if that's changed post covid?

Got my 3rd observation of the season tomorrow. I would've had it earlier in the month had I not been on holiday. Its great that the observations are happening early where I am and that theres going to be no issues trying to get the 5 in.
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The year I went up there were 33 of us on the 5-4 scheme. 14 went up.
A large proportion of those that didn’t make it failed the fitness test, there were a couple that failed the LOTG exam and the rest didn’t have marks that were good enough.
 
Big Cat said:
What might the average be for say... a level 4 Ref
I was AR to an excellent Ref (L4) at the weekend, who arguably didn't make any mistakes in an averagely challenging game. Almost certainly the best Ref I've assisted. He got 72.5. Very promising young chap. Might see him on the tele in a few years time (only 21 years old!)
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You cannot compare 5-4 observations with a L4 observation. We work to different criteria.
A standard mark for a L4 is 70, but the average will be more 72 under the current scheme. So a 72.5 is above average.
 
lincs22 said:
You cannot compare 5-4 observations with a L4 observation. We work to different criteria.
A standard mark for a L4 is 70, but the average will be more 72 under the current scheme. So a 72.5 is above average.
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Yes, I did think the 5-to-4 and Level 4 Observations were a different kettle of fish in terms of scoring. Higher marks seem to go out the window at L4 and above. I haven't seen either 'observer manual'
TBH... not much point worrying about their content as a promotion candidate. We'd just tie ourselves in knots worrying about the detail. Better off just getting out there and strutting our stuff to see where it takes us (rather than fret about things and try too hard)
 
Ben448844 said:
Would be interesting to know. I wonder what the pass rate is for 5-4s and if that's changed post covid?

Got my 3rd observation of the season tomorrow. I would've had it earlier in the month had I not been on holiday. Its great that the observations are happening early where I am and that theres going to be no issues trying to get the 5 in.
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I'm yet to be observed because I passed the fitness test so late. Honestly, I didn't really expect to get this far (didn't really expect to pass the fitness test that is), what with the injury and fitness setbacks I've had this year. I didn't think I'd lose the weight required either
So, I'm seeing the appointments I'm getting as a promotion candidate as a bonus and I'm enjoying the new level of football. Paying spectators & well organized games, instead of lawless County games and CARs and all that jazz.
I'm always fairly confident in my Refereeing, but we'll just have to see what happens. More that easy to drop a bad game into the mix whilst the observer is in Town, so one game at a time. Good thing is, I'm noticeably fitter than previous years and feeling sharper in games as a result
 
Still haven't quite got my head round the new marking system and still significant variation in marks from observer to observer.
 
JamesL said:
Still haven't quite got my head round the new marking system and still significant variation in marks from observer to observer.
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And you think this is unusual. It took a lot of time to eliminate the variances under the old system, so give us 4-5 years to get better......
 
lincs22 said:
And you think this is unusual. It took a lot of time to eliminate the variances under the old system, so give us 4-5 years to get better......
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Given I used the word still, would make it not unusual 😁 I'll give you 2. 😆
 
Big Cat said:
Yes, I did think the 5-to-4 and Level 4 Observations were a different kettle of fish in terms of scoring. Higher marks seem to go out the window at L4 and above. I haven't seen either 'observer manual'
TBH... not much point worrying about their content as a promotion candidate. We'd just tie ourselves in knots worrying about the detail. Better off just getting out there and strutting our stuff to see where it takes us (rather than fret about things and try too hard)
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The manuals are in the Resources section of the forum. You should be looking at the 5-4 competencies, as this is what we mark on. Without knowing what we are looking for, you aren't earning marks.

That said, referee as you would normally do, as the competencies are the what good referees would do.
 
lincs22 said:
The manuals are in the Resources section of the forum. You should be looking at the 5-4 competencies, as this is what we mark on. Without knowing what we are looking for, you aren't earning marks.

That said, referee as you would normally do, as the competencies are the what good referees would do.
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Don't worry, the Competencies were all derived from folk watching me Referee ;) 👉
I effectively wrote them me sen
 
Big Cat said:
What might the average be for say... a level 4 Ref
I was AR to an excellent Ref (L4) at the weekend, who arguably didn't make any mistakes in an averagely challenging game. Almost certainly the best Ref I've assisted. He got 72.5. Very promising young chap. Might see him on the tele in a few years time (only 21 years old!)
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The current average for L3's is 72.35. But it is eye wateringly tight. Those averaging 73+ are in great shape for promotion. Those averaging less than 72 are looking over their shoulder at demotion.

Marks for L4's will vary across the country. Maybe especially between North & South :rolleyes: . However, my best guess is that 73+ is excellent, 72+ is good and anything under 71.5 is a problem.
 
Spoke to a 6-5 today under Middlesex FA. He said they do not get told when an observer is coming and only after the game will they know.

Does this sound right?!
 
MattTheRef said:
Spoke to a 6-5 today under Middlesex FA. He said they do not get told when an observer is coming and only after the game will they know.

Does this sound right?!
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No, there should always be contact between the observer and referee before the game. If not in the days before then certainly on arrival at the ground.
 
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