Don't go down that route. It is a disgusting word. That's it. The worrying thing for me, I hear it more and more in modern society nowadays than I did say, 5-10 years ago!
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Feisty one today!
- Thread starter Sheffields Finest
- Start date
Don't go down that route. It is a disgusting word. That's it. The worrying thing for me, I hear it more and more in modern society nowadays than I did say, 5-10 years ago!
Isn't pretty much all OFFINABUS your own view, opinion and interpretation? Because I've certainly never seen a FIFA/FA directive that specifically* dictates what constitutes offensive, insulting and/or abusive language. I'm guessing that by your post, you have? So, please share where this directive is with us all as I'm sure we'd all be keen to read it @GraemeS
* by specific I mean the list of words you're eluding to!
* by specific I mean the list of words you're eluding to!
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Don't turn this round on me - you're the one with the explicit list of banned words!
I've made it very clear that I think context is relevant and a lot of theoretically offensive words can be fine in the right tone/context. You've stated that c**t is red at all times, which seems to run contrary to the spirit of the law (and as others have stated, the clear intent of the removal of the concept of "foul language" from OFFINABUS). I'm not the one that needs to justify my stance - as far as I see it, by taking context into account, I'm refereeing according to the law.
Interesting argument.
Personally, it's down to context for me but also volume. If it is said as more of an attack on himself because he's just had a mare and it isn't shouted at the top of his voice I would usually let it slide and give a warning when we next pass each other. Anything that is loud enough it can be heard from the other end of the field is a no-no.
Yesterday I had a game which was two sides from the same village, they were all team mates last season but split into two sides this. All were having friendly banter as I arrived and all mentioned that they were friendly rivals. I mentioned to all beforehand that I would allow some friendly banter during the game as long as it didn't get out of hand, or the context changed. That said, I told them no use of either of the two C words.
The game went really well, I felt that if I had curbed this and didn't allow the friendly banter it could have descended into a hostile game. After the game, full compliment of handshakes and a comment from a league official, who had turned up unannounced to watch who actually praised the handling of it. Said I took the common sense approach as opposed to the one likely to have made the situation so much worse and so unnecessary.
Personally, it's down to context for me but also volume. If it is said as more of an attack on himself because he's just had a mare and it isn't shouted at the top of his voice I would usually let it slide and give a warning when we next pass each other. Anything that is loud enough it can be heard from the other end of the field is a no-no.
Yesterday I had a game which was two sides from the same village, they were all team mates last season but split into two sides this. All were having friendly banter as I arrived and all mentioned that they were friendly rivals. I mentioned to all beforehand that I would allow some friendly banter during the game as long as it didn't get out of hand, or the context changed. That said, I told them no use of either of the two C words.
The game went really well, I felt that if I had curbed this and didn't allow the friendly banter it could have descended into a hostile game. After the game, full compliment of handshakes and a comment from a league official, who had turned up unannounced to watch who actually praised the handling of it. Said I took the common sense approach as opposed to the one likely to have made the situation so much worse and so unnecessary.
mikedn
Referee/Mentor
Oh dear, you are one of the " i must have it in writing " brigade before you can act on it, oh my word god help us, ..... i can imagine your pre-match talk " ok guys you can say c*** as it is not in FIFA/FA directive phew! anything for an easy life as long as you don't get any grief from the players. Do your teams have websites ? i bet they write " great ref that, best we had all season" Just use some common sense, is not a nice word no need for it on the field of play. (where's my paracetamol)
Cheshire Ref
RefChat Addict
Wow.....after about half an hours reading i have reached the end of this thread. For what is worth (not that there is much point as there are some stubborn attitudes here) here is my view.
Some have quite rightly pointed out IFAB have designed OFFINABUS so that no swear words are included, there is no hard and fast rule. I am sorry but being so offended by a word in 2016 is ridiculous and getting teams together before a game to explain what words are not allowed is equally absurd. A player can be offensive and or insulting by using the word twit or burke or by calling someone a flipping bafoon, on the flip side of that you can call someone a cnut by being in no way insulting or offensive (just as others have explained above).
With this you are completely contradicting your own argument and proving that you are in fact taking the law into your own hands by choosing one word in English language that YOU will not allow no matter how it is used.
Some have quite rightly pointed out IFAB have designed OFFINABUS so that no swear words are included, there is no hard and fast rule. I am sorry but being so offended by a word in 2016 is ridiculous and getting teams together before a game to explain what words are not allowed is equally absurd. A player can be offensive and or insulting by using the word twit or burke or by calling someone a flipping bafoon, on the flip side of that you can call someone a cnut by being in no way insulting or offensive (just as others have explained above).
With this you are completely contradicting your own argument and proving that you are in fact taking the law into your own hands by choosing one word in English language that YOU will not allow no matter how it is used.
mikedn
Referee/Mentor
Absolutely............ i will not allow it !! no need... how often have you heard after a shot on goal and missed it " oh c***" 99/100 it will be f*** it/f****** hell. Perhaps you gentleman who have no problem with the word c*** use it in your everyday vocabulary and have no problem with it depending on its (get out of jail word now)CONTEXT how would you react in our next game when you send off a player for saying c*** and probably rightly so(in right context) and he says " i said it last week and the ref didn't do anything but bollock me" you stand there and explain that to him and probably his manager and probably other team mates... good luck..
Cheshire Ref
RefChat Addict
@mikedn A word is a word. Me, personally am not offended by any word in the Oxford Engligh dictionary, it is just another word. If a player uses any word from that dictionary in an insulting of offensive manner then he walks, it really is that simple. Does that word have to be a "swear" word, of course not.
For the record i have heard a player call himself that out of frustration many many times.
Wanna know what my daughters second word was? Which she said on the sideline whilst watching me play? S**t. Her second word was s**t!!! She'd heard that term used and then repeated it! Think about it; it isn't just what is said or how it's said, it's also about who is in earshot!!
She hasn't come to watch me play or ref since.
She hasn't come to watch me play or ref since.
Cheshire Ref
RefChat Addict
Why on earth would I say that? I think this discussion would go a lot better if you stopped putting words in my mouth.
I apply the law as it's written - punishing things that are intended to be offensive/abusive and not punishing things that are not intended as such. I don't find the word offensive in isolation, no, so it would be entirely incorrect for me to send someone off for it. And in the absence of a document telling me that c**t = red, I will continue applying my interpretation of the law.
My pre-match speech on this topic is usually along the lines of "I'm happy for you to talk to me and ask questions, but I need to you accept my answers and not get into an argument or I'll start thinking about cards." I certainly don't list every possible scenario or word and what card I would/wouldn't give - I warn players if they're pushing their luck where I can, but sometimes that's not possible or an incident can flare out of nothing and the card will come straight out if needed.
I'd explain the context. The law includes the words "abusive" and "insulting", and it's really not tricky to make a distinction between the word used in jest to a teammate and the word used in anger at someone who's just kicked you. I'm honestly surprised this discussion has gone on so long, that's clearly why the law is written as it is.
As per my previous post - I'd answer the questions and if players still didn't accept that answer, I'd start showing yellows until they did. Ideally I'd be getting the captain in as I showed the red in the first place and hope that he accepts the decision and keeps his team calm - but that depends how helpful the captain has been up until that point.
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
I don't find any words offensive, and if be willing to bet that I have a greater and more imaginative selection of words and phrases with which to abuse someone than any player I've met.
Context does have to be taken into account when it come to OFFINABUS, someone calling themselves a c*** or just using it in conversation is not going to have me reaching straight for my red, unless I've had a word and they ignore me.
Of course if it's screamed across the pitch that would be different.
Obviously things like homophobic or racist comments will always be a red regardless of context.
Context does have to be taken into account when it come to OFFINABUS, someone calling themselves a c*** or just using it in conversation is not going to have me reaching straight for my red, unless I've had a word and they ignore me.
Of course if it's screamed across the pitch that would be different.
Obviously things like homophobic or racist comments will always be a red regardless of context.
No, I am not. What I am saying though is that "****" is an expletive, a swearword, a word I would not want my child or anyone elses child to repeat. So, being mindful of the environment and the people present, if I heard any swearwords used that I wouldn't want a child to repeat, I would deal with it, usually in this case with a "language please gents, there's kids about".
Has everything on this forum got to be about **** measuring and making yourself look better than everyone else by pointing fingers?!
Cheshire Ref
RefChat Addict
That's exactly how it looks on a lot of threads, people thinking they are above everyone else, trying to get one over each other. I don't understand it. People should just be willing to help.
It's difficult with a topic such as above because there is no definitive guideline or document to support the points made.
It's difficult with a topic such as above because there is no definitive guideline or document to support the points made.
Cheshire Ref
RefChat Addict
This argument certainly filled my lunch hour!
For what it's worth in my opinion;
It has to be taken in context because if your sending off for the use of the C word, surely you'd have to send off for other words people use. In the 'spirit of the game' it's not beneficial to send every player off who uses it unless it's aimed at you, let's face it some players intelligence isn't where it should be so the use of lower grade language to them is acceptable as to others it may well not be.
I suppose as long as your consistent in your own approach everyone knows where they stand.
For what it's worth in my opinion;
It has to be taken in context because if your sending off for the use of the C word, surely you'd have to send off for other words people use. In the 'spirit of the game' it's not beneficial to send every player off who uses it unless it's aimed at you, let's face it some players intelligence isn't where it should be so the use of lower grade language to them is acceptable as to others it may well not be.
I suppose as long as your consistent in your own approach everyone knows where they stand.