The use of homophobic language

[Sheffields Finest]

It is still a racist comment OFFINABUS

There is only one race, The Human Race... I don't personally like that word either but I wholeheartedly agree that the word is used amongst Black players normally in jest. My son in Law is Gambian, we have many a funny discussion about colour both ways, but I would never ever use that phrase. Unfortunately in my childhood that was a very common word used for a different reason...

 

[Mintyref]

So we are to red card players when they use certain words.........so where is the list of these words and their foreign language equivalents.......
There are many words with two meanings, gay, queer to use but two......it has to be taken in context

 

[DB]

Interpretation and opinion. That is what it boils down to. How I judge it... if I don't want my two year old repeating it, I deal with it.

We all have our own styles, opinions, interpretations etc but some things, regardless of what contexts they are used in, are offensive, insulting and/or abusive.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Had to give the missus a straight Red card tonight after all this 'advice'!! She's in the spare room!!

 

[DB]

Now you're just being petty.
"Oi you faggot"..... "Sorry ref, I was just referring to those lovely lumps in gravy". "Oh that's okay then"....

You're taking this to another level now and clearly don't understand what people have tried explaining to you. This will be my last post on the matter. I would however advise you to re-consider what you find acceptable and unacceptable, for not being able to handle this could lead to problems during your time in the middle.

All the best

 

[santa sangria]

I am with DB here.
Seems like you want to avoid dealing with homophobic language in the way we have been instructed to.
There is no debate about context when it comes to homophobic, racist and misogynist language.

To the question about languages. I face this every game. I at least have to deal with English and Finnish. Sometimes Swedish, Russian, French, Spanish, Turkish. I have had games with swearing in different combinations of these. I don't know any swear words or insults in some of these languages. You can only play what's put it front of you. This "proves" nothing: I had one south american call a french african "monkey" in Finnish. Easy red card. At the time he and his captain were at pains to point out that there were Hispanics, Finns, Swedes and French Africans on their team (too). Pretty easy reply from me: "all the more reason to take the red card, apologise to your team mates and the other team." And that he did. The guy he called "monkey" had just fouled him, worthy of a yellow - and did look quite apinoid, at least more apinoid than 50% of the population - is that excuse enough to make it OK? No, of course it's not. Its not acceptable in any context.

I don't think you really need a list of homophobic or racist insults do you? You know what they are. You recognise them.
(Misogynist is a trickier and also far more unusual (in my tiny experience)).

I would find absolutely hilarious if someone used "pillow biter" or "shirt lifter" in a game. To be honest I might not be able to hold back laughter. Because my personal context for these phrases is related to memories of father getting me in stitches. However much I find it amusing it's still a red card on the field. My own personal tolerance does not matter here. I am a Liverpool fan. I thought Robbie Fowler's gesture at Le Saux was hilarious because I am an idiot child inside. It's a red card.

Its not the pub, not a club, not the street, not the playground. When you play, you agree to play by the rules (laws). When you ref, you agree to ref by the laws.

Homophobic language/gestures - red card
Racist language/gestures - red card
Misogynist language/gestures - red card
Other swearing/gestures you can make up your own mind, based on the context...

 

[Peter Grove]

Most of those things in isolation are very bad things to say and certainly can be reds most of the time, however there is no specific Law that says there is a zero tolerance to anything.

No, but there is specific guidance from the FA, which has already been mentioned several times in this thread and which says quite simply and plainly that the kind of language we are talking about here "is a red card." No room for leeway there, that I can see.

 

[McTavish]

USB

I don't really see how it can be USB - as you have not dismissed you are saying that the language used is not offensive, insulting or abusive so why would you give any punishment at all? Why is it unsporting?

 

[Padfoot]

Shall we pop open the can of worms around the fact that there is no requirement for someone for to actually be offended, insulted or abused?
That the words or phrases used are intended, by their very nature or the context, to offend, insult or abuse regardless of the end result?

 

[DB]

Shall we pop open the can of worms around the fact that there is no requirement for someone for to actually be offended, insulted or abused?
That the words or phrases used are intended, by their very nature or the context, to offend, insult or abuse regardless of the end result?

Exactly the point I was trying to make

 

[Sheffields Finest]

I would look at the reaction of players. If no one reacts I wouldn't do anything, whereas if it provokes a response I would send off safe in the knowledge that I would be 100% backed by the authorities.

If I spoke to the offender or pulled a yellow card on him I know I would be putting myself at serious risk, so I wouldn't do it.

Spot on Mr Rusty!!! What Level are you these days 3, 4??

 

[DB]

I can't believe what I'm reading!!!!

 

[Brian Hamilton]

People's vocabulary varies, some members of our society use words we as referees would consider offinabus as part of day to day speech. They use this on the field of play, why are we arbiters of speech that offends no one?
If they change the way they use the words that brings a different connotation, then we may be justified in taking action.
If a black man calls another black man a n#####, is it offinabus?
Why should it be, it is used in this way all of the time. Context has to be the key when considering offinabus.

This is kind of like "if a tree falls in a empty forest does it make a sound?"

It's just like, if it looks like a caution, if it smells like a caution, then it is a caution. If the comment is generally regarded as offensive, then do your job. If you don't then how do you know that someone isn't going to try and exact their own retribution. That will give you an even bigger match control problem than sending off a player who has used an offensive term or gesture.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Shall we pop open the can of worms around the fact that there is no requirement for someone for to actually be offended, insulted or abused?
That the words or phrases used are intended, by their very nature or the context, to offend, insult or abuse regardless of the end result?

And to add to this, how do you know they are offended? Is it verbal outburst in response, their aggressive stance or is it their silent resignation that once more someone has used THAT word. Offence doesn't have to manifest itself in a physical reaction, it can be mental too and that does not generate any physical reaction for fear of a counter reaction from the original person or others. For example, why do you think there are so few openly GBT players in men's football? Is it because they don't dare react when the abuse starts and just keep their offended stance locked inside.

 

[Trip]

"The FA will apply sanctions for homophobic abuse, which is outlawed under Law 12 of the Laws of the Game. It is a red card offence and referees are trained to manage situations where it arises."

Unfortunately most referees at grass roots level have not in been trained to manage these situations. In fact unless you are on a promotion scheme there is no training given at all beyond the initial course (at least in my county).

 

[Padfoot]

Unfortunately most referees at grass roots level have not in been trained to manage these situations. In fact unless you are on a promotion scheme there is no training given at all beyond the initial course (at least in my county).

You're not trained how to send someone off and explain why?

Really?

 

[RustyRef]

You're not trained how to send someone off and explain why?

Really?

I'm sure he means more that they aren't trained in what language and terms constitutes OFFINABUS. Things change over time, and a referee that qualified 10 years ago or more might not realise that some terms that were fine back then are now offensive. The classic one is calling someone coloured, that used to be perfectly acceptable but now is a massive no no. I know someone who got a formal HR disciplinary warning for using that word, so if it constitutes a work disciplinary charge does it also constitute a red card on the football pitch?

 

[Sheffields Finest]

In my day if you used the word 'Black' you were marched to the headmasters office. Big no no 'Coloured' certainly was used back then without any issue whatsoever, 'Mixed Race' became more prevalent I suppose in the 80/90s. Other phrases were used too about LBGT type individuals but they weren't as visible as they are today. I don't have any issues with anyone, black, white, yellow, green, straight or gay, as long as they behave, respect me and get on thats all that matters...

 

[Padfoot]

I'm sure he means more that they aren't trained in what language and terms constitutes OFFINABUS. Things change over time, and a referee that qualified 10 years ago or more might not realise that some terms that were fine back then are now offensive. The classic one is calling someone coloured, that used to be perfectly acceptable but now is a massive no no. I know someone who got a formal HR disciplinary warning for using that word, so if it constitutes a work disciplinary charge does it also constitute a red card on the football pitch?

That's just a cop out......hiding behnd the argument that no one gives you a definitive list....

But then given that you have admitted you would ignore the homophobic insult if you thought you would get away with it, I'm not entirely surprised.

 

[Mintyref]

You cannot berate a colleague for the actions that were taken at the time, without being there. You cannot in all seriousness decide that every time a player utters a certain word that you will dismiss them. I agree that some words are always likely to result in a dismissal, but you have to take each incident on its merits.